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West Ham 1-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

On another note i'd have Chiquinho ahead of Trincao now, that spineless arsehole can fuck off, it's been a long time since we've witnessed players backing out of challenges the way he does. Players like Dendoncker, and Dave Edwards have always got stick due to their ability, but Trincao and the like deserve far more. He should have got abuse off the fans for that performance today (and ones before it) I hope he did.

So much for my hope that he might climb out of Adama's shadow!
 
On another note i'd have Chiquinho ahead of Trincao now, that spineless arsehole can fuck off, it's been a long time since we've witnessed players backing out of challenges the way he does. Players like Dendoncker, and Dave Edwards have always got stick due to their ability, but Trincao and the like deserve far more. He should have got abuse off the fans for that performance today.
You’d *almost* put up with it if he was creating glorious opportunities and scoring goals, but he’s doing the square root of fuck all, all over the pitch AND being a puss in tackles.

Needs binning off.
 
If and when we swap Trincao for Adama, that forward line today will have cost us nearly £90m.

If I was a mad scientist, and able to combine all of their strengths into one footballer, I reckon you'd end up with someone of a Danny Ings/JRod at their pomp kind of level. Absolute fucking madness we've got three players all with multiple, glaring deficiencies starting in a Premier League game that's so vital.

The line up today was the kind of shit you play in second leg of a coca cola cup 3rd round when you're three nil up. Absolute shit.

Wing backs are shit. Dendonker is shit. The front three are shit. When you're playing 6 footballers who are absolute fucking wasters at top 6 level, you're welcoming a defeat with open arms.

Bruno has been apparently happy with the last few performances - I'll give him the benefit and presume he's doing the 'praise is public, bollock behind closed doors' thing, but unless he's a fucking idiot he should be fuming.
 
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Bonus Francisco Corica marks today for ending a move by falling over the ball on the edge of the box, then getting play stopped for staying down with a non-existent injury.

More guts in a cheap sausage.
 
We've been crap to watch for the majority of the season.

Look at November/December - Palace, Norwich, Burnley, Liverpool, City and Chelsea. Six games, two of them against teams anchored in the bottom three at the time, did we have 10 shots on target across them? Not sure we did.

Even some of the better performances like Everton, we've only really played for one half. A few wins where nearly or every shot on target we've had has gone in. Those first three games (all lost, 0 scored) have attained mythical proportions, yet we didn't work the keeper that much in any of them (De Gea was the busiest, but it's not like he pulled off a string of superb saves).

He's done OK but I've never bought this 'change of style'. We aren't anything like as good to watch as we were in 2018/19 or 2019/20.

It does feel a little odd the way the season has played out, despite the points haul.

I know you disagreed at the time but the first three games seemed like change was afoot. There was a renewed energy to the team, they were pushed a bit further up the pitch, they were engaging the opposition earlier when out of possession and the tempo had been cranked up a bit. It wasn't revolution by any means but it felt like the start of something different at least. Obviously the results didn't go to plan but there were hopeful signs in my eyes, the team weren't really finding themselves any more exposed than they had been previously in a more conservative setup and they were creating chances in ways we hadn't seen for a few years too. Whilst Traore, and others, ultimately wasted those chances it seems like the team created more of those clear cut opportunities in 3 games than they had in 3 years under Nuno.

After those losses it felt like there was a scaling back of new ideas, the higher line stayed but the press dropped off and use of the ball seemed to become much safer again, a reversion to type of sorts. Seemed like a sensible idea at the time, bring the players back to their comfort zone before confidence was completely eroded by trying and failing with something new over and over. Hard to really argue with the results and points accumulated in that period too, even if it wasn't the brave new world we'd seen flashes of it could at least be a solid base to build on. There were times in this period too where you could see Lage was unhappy on the sidelines, like he was asking for more but the players were sticking to what they were comfortable with.

Lately it feels a bit like he's come to accept it for what it is, it's not felt like they've really been pushed to do anything new for a while. The results have been ticking along nicely and the points total going up so everyone has just sort of let it lie and got on with it. I suppose for upper management that's a decent enough place to be, everyone getting along and hitting their targets, no need to step in and do anything.

The last few games have felt different again though, perhaps resting on their laurels a bit too much and come unstuck. It does feel like there's been a renewed emphasis on playing out short just lately though, maybe that's upset the applecart? Whatever the reason it's not been good and it feels downright weird for Lage to make sounds like he's perfectly happy with it when it seems so far from what he originally tried to do. Though I do wonder if there's a hint of something in one of the interviews he did this week. He mentioned about setting up in a way that suits the players you have, is this what he thinks he has to do to suit the players available? We know he's made plenty of noise about needing more players in so given that never happened has he resigned himself to playing this sort of game because he thinks it suits the players he has best?

Whilst there should be a better tune out of this squad I do feel it's a stretch to think they'll ever play real free flowing attacking football. I think that's part of the reason they did so well under Nuno, he was a fairly conservative manager and he was on the same wavelength with a bunch of mainly conservative players, it was a symbiotic relationship. I don't think they, collectively, display the requisite movement, comfort on and appetite for the ball, self belief and conviction to really play in an outwardly attacking fashion consistently. It just doesn't appear to be what they want to do. You get the odd one like Podence who seems happy to drop in for the ball and try to force the issue, I've judged him harshly plenty but at least he's willing to put his head above the parapet and have a go even with precious little support, which makes his task even harder and risk of failure far greater.

Ultimately I think it could be an unhappy ending for Lage somewhere along the line. Whilst this sort of disparity can be easily ignored whilst results go your way, it still can't be much fun for Lage coaching a team against what he really wants them to do, when the points dry up crack will soon start to appear. In those situations it's rarely the manager that wins, it's far easier to remove the one man in the dugout than the multiple out on the pitch who are on opposite sides of the fence. I think it's a situation perhaps made even worse for him by the relative success so far this season, he's proved he can achieve results with this group already so if he can't do it again it looks worse on him. I think it would make the board even more hesitant to back him with transfers that he's, to some degree at least, shown he doesn't need.
 
Bonus Francisco Corica marks today for ending a move by falling over the ball on the edge of the box, then getting play stopped for staying down with a non-existent injury.

More guts in a cheap sausage.
Changed your tune from last week, when I called him out for exactly what he is
 
Changed your tune from last week, when I called him out for exactly what he is
Have I?

I said he presses quite well (which he does, you can look up the numbers if you like) so throwing out a catch all 'poor workrate' wasn't quite right.

I've consistently called him out for bottling 60/40s and 70/30s, as well as his zero end product.
 
Last 10 mins or so we had the team on the pitch we should have started with. As soon as I saw the lineup I thought “Wolves 0”.
I sat amongst the home fans who were largely silent, but overall seemed pleased with their team!’s performance.
I thought West Ham were there for the taking. We were beyond awful for the most part.
I understand the need for some rotation, but that was such a poor team selection.
 
It does feel a little odd the way the season has played out, despite the points haul.

I know you disagreed at the time but the first three games seemed like change was afoot. There was a renewed energy to the team, they were pushed a bit further up the pitch, they were engaging the opposition earlier when out of possession and the tempo had been cranked up a bit. It wasn't revolution by any means but it felt like the start of something different at least. Obviously the results didn't go to plan but there were hopeful signs in my eyes, the team weren't really finding themselves any more exposed than they had been previously in a more conservative setup and they were creating chances in ways we hadn't seen for a few years too. Whilst Traore, and others, ultimately wasted those chances it seems like the team created more of those clear cut opportunities in 3 games than they had in 3 years under Nuno.

After those losses it felt like there was a scaling back of new ideas, the higher line stayed but the press dropped off and use of the ball seemed to become much safer again, a reversion to type of sorts. Seemed like a sensible idea at the time, bring the players back to their comfort zone before confidence was completely eroded by trying and failing with something new over and over. Hard to really argue with the results and points accumulated in that period too, even if it wasn't the brave new world we'd seen flashes of it could at least be a solid base to build on. There were times in this period too where you could see Lage was unhappy on the sidelines, like he was asking for more but the players were sticking to what they were comfortable with.

Lately it feels a bit like he's come to accept it for what it is, it's not felt like they've really been pushed to do anything new for a while. The results have been ticking along nicely and the points total going up so everyone has just sort of let it lie and got on with it. I suppose for upper management that's a decent enough place to be, everyone getting along and hitting their targets, no need to step in and do anything.

The last few games have felt different again though, perhaps resting on their laurels a bit too much and come unstuck. It does feel like there's been a renewed emphasis on playing out short just lately though, maybe that's upset the applecart? Whatever the reason it's not been good and it feels downright weird for Lage to make sounds like he's perfectly happy with it when it seems so far from what he originally tried to do. Though I do wonder if there's a hint of something in one of the interviews he did this week. He mentioned about setting up in a way that suits the players you have, is this what he thinks he has to do to suit the players available? We know he's made plenty of noise about needing more players in so given that never happened has he resigned himself to playing this sort of game because he thinks it suits the players he has best?

Whilst there should be a better tune out of this squad I do feel it's a stretch to think they'll ever play real free flowing attacking football. I think that's part of the reason they did so well under Nuno, he was a fairly conservative manager and he was on the same wavelength with a bunch of mainly conservative players, it was a symbiotic relationship. I don't think they, collectively, display the requisite movement, comfort on and appetite for the ball, self belief and conviction to really play in an outwardly attacking fashion consistently. It just doesn't appear to be what they want to do. You get the odd one like Podence who seems happy to drop in for the ball and try to force the issue, I've judged him harshly plenty but at least he's willing to put his head above the parapet and have a go even with precious little support, which makes his task even harder and risk of failure far greater.

Ultimately I think it could be an unhappy ending for Lage somewhere along the line. Whilst this sort of disparity can be easily ignored whilst results go your way, it still can't be much fun for Lage coaching a team against what he really wants them to do, when the points dry up crack will soon start to appear. In those situations it's rarely the manager that wins, it's far easier to remove the one man in the dugout than the multiple out on the pitch who are on opposite sides of the fence. I think it's a situation perhaps made even worse for him by the relative success so far this season, he's proved he can achieve results with this group already so if he can't do it again it looks worse on him. I think it would make the board even more hesitant to back him with transfers that he's, to some degree at least, shown he doesn't need.
That first line alone accurately captures my thoughts. I really have found it all a little odd.
 
If you didn't know any different you'd swear Bruno was ramping it back just to show the board how light the squad is. Win a few, then make some stupid team and tactical selections in some vital games so we lose a couple. Sounds crazy i know but the last 2 games were so irrational in their nature...
 
Last 10 mins or so we had the team on the pitch we should have started with. As soon as I saw the lineup I thought “Wolves 0”.
I sat amongst the home fans who were largely silent, but overall seemed pleased with their team!’s performance.
I thought West Ham were there for the taking. We were beyond awful for the most part.
I understand the need for some rotation, but that was such a poor team selection.
A poor team beat a terrible one. The fact that both are challenging for Europe show the lack of quality in the PL this season below the top two
 
Sa
Jonny Kilman Coady RAN
Podence Moutinho Neves Neto
Hwang Raul

in 4222 formation please . Let’s just see if that can work. It will be fun at least . It’s not currently
 
I can tell you right now if it would work and the answer begins with n and ends with o.
 
Bonus Francisco Corica marks today for ending a move by falling over the ball on the edge of the box, then getting play stopped for staying down with a non-existent injury.

More guts in a cheap sausage.

Didn't the ball hit him in the bollocks? I thought that's why he was down.
 
Didn't the ball hit him in the bollocks? I thought that's why he was down.

Not really sure what happened in that incident, barely looked to be any contact with Zouma but on the replay he definitely put his hands towards his crotch before he crumpled. However, when things finally resumed and the camera followed him getting back into position he seemed to be holding his lower back wincing.
 
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