West Ham 1-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[sycophantia]

A little word on Neves. One of the finest footballers I’ve ever seen wear a Wolves shirt. Actually, maybe, the finest.

I was quite near the front today and watched close up - he shows for absolutely everything. He wants it in tight spaces where others wouldn’t dream of making themselves available. And everyone looks for him. Every single time. If in doubt……give it to Ruben.

So, guess what, sometimes it’s not going to go perfect for him - especially when his midfield compadre is Donk.

If and when (and maybe soon) Neves goes to one if the big boys, we will see him just do the simple things well - rather than trying to do everything (and without the expectation).

He will be like Rodri, Fabinho, Fernandinho and all those other boys that are recognised superstars without always being……the superstars.

Yeah I've been critical of him today...just one game though, and as I said earlier probably more to do with the other players around him

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

We weren’t rubbish if the goal is damage limitation (like in an away European tie now away goals don’t count double) but in a league game against rivals on similar points, where you get zero points for scoring less than them, the negativity is the killer.
West Ham were poor, there was no reason for us not to get at them or to be ever so slightly more expansive than we were.

It [the negative style] and todays frankly odd team selection is hurting us badly.

 

[Loki]

First game on MOTD. I`m switching off.

 

[t3ch]

Can’t imagine why. Result from our end aside, it was a shit game

 

[Tom Hark]

Perhaps because it was the only PL game played?

 

[Dinowolf]

It wasn't just Wolves that performed poorly. West Ham set-up to 'not lose' by dropping their WBs deep and playing like the away side at times.

They parked the bus and relied on breakaways esp. after they scored.
Not good to watch.

 

[sycophantia]

It was all round a shit game and shit result...cheered my self up with a visit to my local for a few pints of Slumbering Monk and listen to rather decent band.

 

[prawnking]

Wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be. Second half was better, Kilman certainly better. I think Donck had a good game for him (some terrible moments but still). Not sure on the Fabio hate, was way better than Raul has been and it’s not his fault we decided to hoof it at him first half.

We were probably lucky to only concede one but the one we have conceded was rubbish.

At the end of the day we were just too negative, had too many rubbish players on the pitch and don’t seem to (still)have a way we plan to score a goal.

We could get away with having Hwang in a good team, but we’ve got no chance if he’s the best (and only) player able to progress the ball up field until we made the changes. He was ok but he’s never going to create anything and we know that. But neither are Donck, Trincao, Marcal or Hoever. You can’t play all of them at the same time! And with Neves playing CB where are you going to get a goal!?

Literally no reason for Hoever, Marcal or Trincao to play for us again. Hoever can go on loan until his contracts up. Marcal can be released and Trincao can fuck of to beach soccer or whatever.

Large spells of the past few games have had a whiff of the self-defeating, cautious play that blighted much of Nuno's final season. Surely Bruno can see this and doesn't want it to be so?

 

[slink]

Worst game of the season for me taking everything in to account. Poor performance, shit ground, shit atmosphere, tons of daytrippers in the away end who never wanted to get behind the team and just moaned constantly with special mention to the 2 blokes next to me both 60+ who insisted on calling Fabio bambi.

Sa was ok, didn’t have lots to do and had no chance with the goal.

Back 3 were poor, moved the ball too slow and were caught out several times with the worst being Saiss for the goal.

I’d quite happily never see Hoever and Marcal play for us again. I feel sorry for Hoever he’s definitely got confidence issues but we just can’t carry that right now and we all know what Marcal is.

Neves had one of his games where he just made quite a few sloppy passes, Donk refuses to turn with the ball and play forward. Incredibly frustrating.

Hwang tries but we need better players around him to get away with things he does and should have put us 1 up with the best chance of the first half.

Trincao has ability but the heart of a pea, makes 80/20s in his favour 100 percents for anyone who wants to challenge him. Can’t have that in this league.

Fabio was our best player, started well holding it up and getting Hwang and Trincao involved then got bullied as we started to lump it up to him and his touch went a couple of times. Was then the only player who looked like scoring but Zouma was excellent. Has to get more minutes but hopefully with Podence and Neto. Does need to stop making the run in between defenders as we never play the pass and it’s a waste of time, much better coming short and playing one-twos.

Podence and Neto improved us and Raul picked up some nice positions but his decision making still looked a bit off and he clearly wasn’t happy at the end as he was straight down the tunnel.

We quickly need to find a way of playing against the press or we’re going to struggle up until the end as everyone will just do that to us. Bruno definitely bullshitting after the game too saying that we played well, he wasn’t happy with most things on the line.

 

[lemonjelly]

We quickly need to find a way of playing against the press or we’re going to struggle up until the end as everyone will just do that to us. Bruno definitely bullshitting after the game too saying that we played well, he wasn’t happy with most things on the line.

we're abysmal versus the press, and this new tactic of the wing backs playing it back to kilman or saiss when they are by the corner flag for a hoof is stupid. We are just inviting pressure and giving up possession. It is rank.

Any team playing us knows, press and we struggle. You'll recover the ball and create opportunities.

Also total agreement with punts - why we get the ball forward, or an advanced throw in and pas back to coady and/or Sa is also pointless. We give away the advantage constantly.

 

[prawnking]

we're abysmal versus the press, and this new tactic of the wing backs playing it back to kilman or saiss when they are by the corner flag for a hoof is stupid. We are just inviting pressure and giving up possession. It is rank.

Any team playing us knows, press and we struggle. You'll recover the ball and create opportunities.

Also total agreement with punts - why we get the ball forward, or an advanced throw in and pas back to coady and/or Sa is also pointless. We give away the advantage constantly.

We also still have last season's frustrating habit of rarely making the most of a quick counter opportunity. More often than not the player on the ball just slows everything down and then makes a conservative decision, or the moment for the progressive pass to work has gone

 

[Jinky]

Having slept on it and attempting to post with a clear head - I’d actually quite like to see what Fabio can offer alongside Raul, with players like Podence/Neto finding him in & around the box. The cat kicker made a fair few blocks yesterday but Fabio did well to get in to a position to shoot considering the criminal lack of supply. It could even help Raul’s confidence to know he’s got someone alongside him sharing the goal scoring burden.

Someone mentioned the shape that Southampton play in (would mean going to a 4 at the back) and I’m not totally against that, although I can’t see Bruno making that change at this stage of the season. He would also almost certainly shoehorn Hwang in to the starting 11 somewhere.

But a front two of Fabio/Raul, with Neto/Podence tucked in behind but also pulling wide to provide the width, with Neves/Moutinho in the middle and a back 4 would be worth a go, IMO.

 

[prawnking]

With Bruno still in the higher echelon of the club's expectations (you'd think), I'd be surprised if he took too many risks between now and the season end

 

[The Saturday Boy]

There was nothing that happened on Sunday that hasn't been evident all season and that is we are not a very good attacking team. We can be effective but not consistently. West Ham and Arsenal pushed and pushed creating opportunities on a regular basis, most of ours were half chances at best on Sunday.

Lage has explained that we have moved from a wide team to an inside team - I get that, we don't have many tall players in the box to get on the end of crosses, but too often we take one pass to many...or play it conservatively (backwards). In the second half we started to play some riskier balls around the box and were probably a touch unlucky not to create a decent chance - Fabio looked like a player who might have benefited but we just don't do it consistently enough.

And we played it safe until the very last minute when Sa had the ball in his area as the 3 minutes injury time had elapsed and there was no urgency from him or Kilman to get the ball forward and the ref blew for full time while the ball was still in our own half. Sometime, gerritforward is legitimate.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

Worst game of the season for me taking everything in to account. Poor performance, shit ground, shit atmosphere, tons of daytrippers in the away end who never wanted to get behind the team and just moaned constantly with special mention to the 2 blokes next to me both 60+ who insisted on calling Fabio bambi.

Sa was ok, didn’t have lots to do and had no chance with the goal.

Back 3 were poor, moved the ball too slow and were caught out several times with the worst being Saiss for the goal.

I’d quite happily never see Hoever and Marcal play for us again. I feel sorry for Hoever he’s definitely got confidence issues but we just can’t carry that right now and we all know what Marcal is.

Neves had one of his games where he just made quite a few sloppy passes, Donk refuses to turn with the ball and play forward. Incredibly frustrating.

Hwang tries but we need better players around him to get away with things he does and should have put us 1 up with the best chance of the first half.

Trincao has ability but the heart of a pea, makes 80/20s in his favour 100 percents for anyone who wants to challenge him. Can’t have that in this league.

Fabio was our best player, started well holding it up and getting Hwang and Trincao involved then got bullied as we started to lump it up to him and his touch went a couple of times. Was then the only player who looked like scoring but Zouma was excellent. Has to get more minutes but hopefully with Podence and Neto. Does need to stop making the run in between defenders as we never play the pass and it’s a waste of time, much better coming short and playing one-twos.

Podence and Neto improved us and Raul picked up some nice positions but his decision making still looked a bit off and he clearly wasn’t happy at the end as he was straight down the tunnel.

We quickly need to find a way of playing against the press or we’re going to struggle up until the end as everyone will just do that to us. Bruno definitely bullshitting after the game too saying that we played well, he wasn’t happy with most things on the line.

Great report Slink but not sure about this bit. There are an enormous amount of 'regular' away fans that fit the 'I'd rather not sit by them' criteria as well.

The AST has almost made attending away games a closed shop. There are hundreds like me that would love to go to all/any/some of them but because of the scheme have to rely of AST holders not being able to make games [funny that the weddings and Christenings they have to attend always fall on the awkward days or when we're at the most difficult to get to venue's].

I'm a fan of rewarding the loyal fans but there are also many many of us that have been home and away (in my case circa 1,000 games) for years and while we have always had a home ST the away one was never a necessity. If we didn't jump on the AST at the particular moment in time before the scheme was closed we've now been excluded almost completely.

As a result you will therefore get the odd daytripper who happens to be in the right place/pub when an AST realises Brighton away is on Amazon on a Thursday and it clashes with his favourite nieces graduation...

 

[Jinky]

There was nothing that happened on Sunday that hasn't been evident all season and that is we are not a very good attacking team. We can be effective but not consistently. West Ham and Arsenal pushed and pushed creating opportunities on a regular basis, most of ours were half chances at best on Sunday.

Hwang should, without a doubt, score his chance just before half time - that definitely wasn't a "half chance". It was a free shot, inside the area with a massive part of the goal free to hit (I know there was a player on the line but he should still be scoring there). Would have been proper smash & grab stuff, though - and I agree with your overall point, which is that we don't create enough chances and although our % conversion rate has generally been quite good (it's needed to be), when the big chance doesn't go in, it probably means we'll end up losing. Our defence has, quite rightly, received lots of plaudits this season - but it's unrealistic to expect them to play a whole season keeping the number of clean sheets that they have done so far.

Lage needs to find a way of striking a balance between being relatively tight at the back, but actually laying a glove on the opposition at the other end of the pitch on a regular basis. Then we don't need to worry about scoring 75%+ of our chances. For me, I would phase out the back 5 and switch to a 4. I think Coady/Kilman would be the way to go. Jonny/RAN (and Semedo whenever he is back) would be more suited to full back roles rather than wing back - and it allows us to get an extra attacking body on the pitch. I don't think Bruno will be brave enough to do this yet while there's still something to fight for, but it's a change that needs to happen.

 

[YoungWolf]

First time I've seen the chance. While it's undoubtedly a free shot, so you'd hope he hits the target, there's so many bodies in front of him!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't think a back four is the silver bullet people seem to believe it is. Having one fewer defender isn't going to turn say, Podence into a massively effective creative/goalscoring force, look at his career record.

We went to a back four near the end yesterday, made no difference as we still didn't move the ball anything like quickly enough, still don't have people who attack deliveries from wide properly, still have too many players on the park who are seriously limited in an attacking sense.

 

[slink]

Great report Slink but not sure about this bit. There are an enormous amount of 'regular' away fans that fit the 'I'd rather not sit by them' criteria as well.

The AST has almost made attending away games a closed shop. There are hundreds like me that would love to go to all/any/some of them but because of the scheme have to rely of AST holders not being able to make games [funny that the weddings and Christenings they have to attend always fall on the awkward days or when we're at the most difficult to get to venue's].

I'm a fan of rewarding the loyal fans but there are also many many of us that have been home and away (in my case circa 1,000 games) for years and while we have always had a home ST the away one was never a necessity. If we didn't jump on the AST at the particular moment in time before the scheme was closed we've now been excluded almost completely.

As a result you will therefore get the odd daytripper who happens to be in the right place/pub when an AST realises Brighton away is on Amazon on a Thursday and it clashes with his favourite nieces graduation...

I'd completely agree that there are a number of regular away fans that you don't want to sit next too and obviously i was generalising but it was just my experience of yesterday that lots around me weren't regulars at away grounds speaking to them and from minute one they never had anything positive to say, didn't get behind the team and came out with shithouse comments like "come on bambi" You would think if you don't go very often then when you do go you would get behind the team but each to their own. My problem was and never would be with any fan regarding how many games they've been too but more the fact that the least we can do as fans is support them while at the game and we can criticise them all we like afterwards on here etc...

Agree that it's a closed shop and you had to be there at the right time to get either the gold or silver AST's but quite rightly you need to reward those that go often imo. I do agree that it's always the awkward games that the AST's can't make or the ones they aren't bothered about but i'm not sure what the club can do now. Either way they're going to piss people off. I know they've removed the 75% rule now for AST so more tickets might become available but as i said earlier i hope that those that do take those tickets get behind the team. while acknowledging that some AST's are moaning fuckers too.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Great report Slink but not sure about this bit. There are an enormous amount of 'regular' away fans that fit the 'I'd rather not sit by them' criteria as well.

The AST has almost made attending away games a closed shop. There are hundreds like me that would love to go to all/any/some of them but because of the scheme have to rely of AST holders not being able to make games [funny that the weddings and Christenings they have to attend always fall on the awkward days or when we're at the most difficult to get to venue's].

I'm a fan of rewarding the loyal fans but there are also many many of us that have been home and away (in my case circa 1,000 games) for years and while we have always had a home ST the away one was never a necessity. If we didn't jump on the AST at the particular moment in time before the scheme was closed we've now been excluded almost completely.

As a result you will therefore get the odd daytripper who happens to be in the right place/pub when an AST realises Brighton away is on Amazon on a Thursday and it clashes with his favourite nieces graduation...

They’ve removed the rule thay AST must attend 75% of games (or just buy tickets and sell them on) to maintain the privilege. So that may mean there will be a little more trickle down.

More likely they will still be bought for mates, but there is no real solution here.

In all fairness my mate doesn’t have any loyalty points beyond ST and the cups but he regularly gets a ticket to come along. If you really want to go theres always a way, but you’re obviously not going to be able to tickets for a group.