Wolves 0-1 Bournemouth: Verdict Thread

[Jinky]

Almost certain we'll finish 14th now, because since the turn of the year we have to be near the bottom of the form table - if not rock bottom. There's no chance we get anything v Palace given the way the two sides are playing - we've lost to West Ham, lost to Bournemouth, lost to Brentford, lost to Newcastle (who we weren't far off at the time). We've then only taken points against Burnley & Forest - two teams in the relegation scrap.

Thank God for those points earlier in the season. I feel like we've been here before...

 

[Dire Wolf]

It does feel like we are in a major downward spiral. Those are notoriously difficult to get out of, and very often carry over from season to season.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It feels like we have ended most seasons badly since we came back up?

 

[YoungWolf]

the injuries have accelerated this I think, but this was always going to catch up with his one way or another. The frustrating thing is it felt like in December and January we were making some progress and that’s been halted by the injuries. But I’m not going to pretend I thought the way we’re playing was sustainable either.

 

[YoungWolf]

It feels like we have ended most seasons badly since we came back up?

I don’t think we did in either of the first two seasons where we finished 7th. We got 16 points from our last 9 games the second time for example. The following covid season we were just crap throughout albeit a solid first 10 games point wise.

Bruno season of course. Last season our form from Julen joining was pretty good PPG we just on the beach the last few games once safe

 

[sycophantia]

Having reflected on last night my more measured opinion is we are fucking shite.

Not having the blame put on players, injuries, tiredness etc - its was a terrible setup, terrible formation, and terrible defensive organisation. Fuck VAR but thats to be expected, what should not be excepted or accepted is the continual pathetic defence.

You're right about the formation, defensive organisation but you can't deny the effect of poor performances, injuries and tiredness, it's all of those things. However GON needs to sort out the deficiencies you mention, I'm not sure he has it in him but deserves the chance to put it right, we'll see if he can do that next season with the 'pre season' he bangs on about.

 

[Shotbybothsides]

There were spaces in every stand, lots in the South Bank too, presumably sths who didn't attend. Jeff won't care he's still got their money

There were spaces in the South Bank but nothing like as bad as the North Bank. I'm not having a dig at the people who attended in that stand or anywhere else, as an individual there is nothing you can do about it.

Anyway I thought non-attending ST holders were included in the official gate?

 

[Tredman]

I could see both stands from our seat pretty well - the gaps looked pretty equal.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Gary O’Neil

On defeat to Bournemouth
“It was probably our worst performance. It was really poor. Individually there were too many below the level this evening. Collectively, we need to make sure this is not the level we produce.
“It was a tough evening for us, myself included, where we need to go home and have a good look at what we’ve produced and make sure we get back to where we were and what our level was.”

On an under-par showing
“We just looked a little bit flat and gave away too many unforced errors. It wasn’t even losing the ball under no pressure, we lost every duel, and every time they went long they landed on it and we didn’t.
“We lost too many balls, lost too many duels and just kept turning the ball over so often. With the way we want to play and what we want to do, we can’t do that. We have to look after the ball better than what we did this evening. It was one where we were well below the level.
“But to be fair, I thought the subs had a good impact and we made a real good do at it second half to try to bounce back after that first half performance. The second half was a small positive, but it was a tough evening.”

On areas to improve
“We need to get players back because you saw when we got Cunha on it gave us some more life, and we need to get Channy fit, he showed some little bits of what he can do today, but he’s still not back to what he was.
“We need important players to step up and manage to perform. We’ve been in a tough spot, but the performance level has still been good up until this evening. It was probably our worst performance so far this season and we need to do better.”

On decisions going against his side
“I’m not discussing officials and decisions anymore. I’ve got full focus on us and what we need to do. Everyone else can see it and make their own decision.
“I’m not interested in discussing referees and VAR decisions anymore. It’s just frustration with us and what we did tonight. That’s all.”

On the future of VAR
“It is a big topic, so I’m sure there will be a lot of people discussing it, but I’ve had enough of discussing it. I will no longer be discussing it.
“It’s important I look at myself this evening and not the officials and what’s gone on outside Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club. It’s really important we look at what we’ve produced and start there.”

I don't think he's made any excuses there. He's held himself and the players accountable in equal measure, such seems fair enough.

 

[sycophantia]

Gary O’Neil

On defeat to Bournemouth
“It was probably our worst performance. It was really poor. Individually there were too many below the level this evening. Collectively, we need to make sure this is not the level we produce.
“It was a tough evening for us, myself included, where we need to go home and have a good look at what we’ve produced and make sure we get back to where we were and what our level was.”

On an under-par showing
“We just looked a little bit flat and gave away too many unforced errors. It wasn’t even losing the ball under no pressure, we lost every duel, and every time they went long they landed on it and we didn’t.
“We lost too many balls, lost too many duels and just kept turning the ball over so often. With the way we want to play and what we want to do, we can’t do that. We have to look after the ball better than what we did this evening. It was one where we were well below the level.
“But to be fair, I thought the subs had a good impact and we made a real good do at it second half to try to bounce back after that first half performance. The second half was a small positive, but it was a tough evening.”

On areas to improve
“We need to get players back because you saw when we got Cunha on it gave us some more life, and we need to get Channy fit, he showed some little bits of what he can do today, but he’s still not back to what he was.
“We need important players to step up and manage to perform. We’ve been in a tough spot, but the performance level has still been good up until this evening. It was probably our worst performance so far this season and we need to do better.”

On decisions going against his side
“I’m not discussing officials and decisions anymore. I’ve got full focus on us and what we need to do. Everyone else can see it and make their own decision.
“I’m not interested in discussing referees and VAR decisions anymore. It’s just frustration with us and what we did tonight. That’s all.”

On the future of VAR
“It is a big topic, so I’m sure there will be a lot of people discussing it, but I’ve had enough of discussing it. I will no longer be discussing it.
“It’s important I look at myself this evening and not the officials and what’s gone on outside Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club. It’s really important we look at what we’ve produced and start there.”

I don't think he's made any excuses there. He's held himself and the players accountable in equal measure, such seems fair enough.

It was fine, the only slight criticism is in one part of an interview he said it wasn't the structure, that clearly wasn't true, the structure was part of the whole debarcle.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Not well enough to go last night so can't comment too much on specifics, but some observations:

1) I can't abide us being locked into always playing 3 CHs like a 6 year old clinging on to a comfort blanket that should have been chucked out long ago, it's been apparent for quite a long time that it has a tendency to make us very stodgy indeed against moderate/poor opposition. It has its place but definitely not in 100% of matches. But whenever we change it we seem to do it on a whim, with players not where they should be, no practice seems to have gone into it and invariably we look worse. Either do it properly or not at all

2) Watching the highlights, why is it so easy to run through us when we have two career defensive midfielders and last night an added deep lying playmaker type in there? That shouldn't be. All season we've faced too many shots realistically

3) Kilman has been questionable on far too many goals this season and seems especially to struggle when he's the senior of the two/three defenders, that's not sustainable on any count

4) I watched Arsenal vs Chelsea on Tuesday and VAR had a look at Arsenal's third goal. There was *probably* a foul on Madueke at the start of the move but the thought process seemed to be that Simon Hooper didn't blow for it originally and it wasn't like Gabriel absolutely booted him, it's just one you'd probably expect to get 6 or 7 times out of 10. So let's not get involved and goal stands. That's fine, if that's your line then I can go along with that. How does that tally with last night and our disallowed goal? More stuff made up as they go along

5) I don't think there are that many parallels to Lage - O'Neil isn't dislikeable, he communicates well, he hasn't alienated/fallen out with senior players, we did actually play some good stuff earlier in the season whereas we were pretty much always awful under Lage even when we were getting results - but it's fairly well established that very poor form from the end of one season can bleed into the next. Even if it's a win and a draw out of Luton and Palace, we could seriously do with it. While injuries have been a factor, all those 11 starters last night are recognisably Premier League players and we brought our top scorer and record signing on in the second half. It isn't as much of an excuse now, certainly not an excuse for being thoroughly outplayed by a team we've been above since October

6) A tired looking ground, poor form, nothing to play for, prices that have got completely out of control, a board that has no obvious positive engagement with the fanbase, people getting rapidly fed up of VAR and the continued rigging of the game in favour of the biggest clubs...these are all recipes for watching your attendances start to drop off. The club should think long and hard about whether they've already squeezed the pips as hard as they can. I wouldn't carry on doing it if I were them

 

[Shotbybothsides]

Agree with all of that, except about Kilman, though I know he splits opinion.`
I thought he was one of best players yesterday.
For me until the subs came on, we were out-battled in midfield, with Hee-chan and Sarabia offering zilch.

 

[sycophantia]

Not well enough to go last night so can't comment too much on specifics, but some observations:

1) I can't abide us being locked into always playing 3 CHs like a 6 year old clinging on to a comfort blanket that should have been chucked out long ago, it's been apparent for quite a long time that it has a tendency to make us very stodgy indeed against moderate/poor opposition. It has its place but definitely not in 100% of matches. But whenever we change it we seem to do it on a whim, with players not where they should be, no practice seems to have gone into it and invariably we look worse. Either do it properly or not at all

2) Watching the highlights, why is it so easy to run through us when we have two career defensive midfielders and last night an added deep lying playmaker type in there? That shouldn't be. All season we've faced too many shots realistically

3) Kilman has been questionable on far too many goals this season and seems especially to struggle when he's the senior of the two/three defenders, that's not sustainable on any count

4) I watched Arsenal vs Chelsea on Tuesday and VAR had a look at Arsenal's third goal. There was *probably* a foul on Madueke at the start of the move but the thought process seemed to be that Simon Hooper didn't blow for it originally and it wasn't like Gabriel absolutely booted him, it's just one you'd probably expect to get 6 or 7 times out of 10. So let's not get involved and goal stands. That's fine, if that's your line then I can go along with that. How does that tally with last night and our disallowed goal? More stuff made up as they go along

5) I don't think there are that many parallels to Lage - O'Neil isn't dislikeable, he communicates well, he hasn't alienated/fallen out with senior players, we did actually play some good stuff earlier in the season whereas we were pretty much always awful under Lage even when we were getting results - but it's fairly well established that very poor form from the end of one season can bleed into the next. Even if it's a win and a draw out of Luton and Palace, we could seriously do with it. While injuries have been a factor, all those 11 starters last night are recognisably Premier League players and we brought our top scorer and record signing on in the second half. It isn't as much of an excuse now, certainly not an excuse for being thoroughly outplayed by a team we've been above since October

6) A tired looking ground, poor form, nothing to play for, prices that have got completely out of control, a board that has no obvious positive engagement with the fanbase, people getting rapidly fed up of VAR and the continued rigging of the game in favour of the biggest clubs...these are all recipes for watching your attendances start to drop off. The club should think long and hard about whether they've already squeezed the pips as hard as they can. I wouldn't carry on doing it if I were them

This is a well thought out, considered and concise account of what I saw last night with no hyperbole.

 

[Tony Towner]

Agree with all of that, except about Kilman, though I know he splits opinion.`
I thought he was one of best players yesterday.
For me until the subs came on, we were out-battled in midfield, with Hee-chan and Sarabia offering zilch.

Not sure one of your best players can be the single biggest contributor to the only goal of the game. Harold Shipman was a good GP if you ignore the murdering bits.

No, EP I'm not directly comparing Kilman to Shipman as people.

 

[sycophantia]

Agree with all of that, except about Kilman, though I know he splits opinion.`
I thought he was one of best players yesterday.
For me until the subs came on, we were out-battled in midfield, with Hee-chan and Sarabia offering zilch.

I agree about Kilman, for most of the game was pretty good, unfortunately his one major error lead to the goal.
Not sure we were out battled in midfield, it felt at the time last night we were just set up wrong, had a poor plan to get out of the press, which lead to Gomes and Lemina trying to shore up the defences. Second half we were more aggressive and braver which pushed Bournemouth back.

 

[Shotbybothsides]

Not sure one of your best players can be the single biggest contributor to the only goal of the game. Harold Shipman was a good GP if you ignore the murdering bits.

No, EP I'm not directly comparing Kilman to Shipman as people.

Yes it was a result of his block / close range misclearance, but overall he was commanding and I thought the defence played reasonably considering the ease with which their midfielders and attacking players were running through us 1st half.

 

[Jinky]

Agree with all of that, except about Kilman, though I know he splits opinion.`
I thought he was one of best players yesterday.
For me until the subs came on, we were out-battled in midfield, with Hee-chan and Sarabia offering zilch.

Said it last night & I'll say it again. Kilman was having a good game, but what's the point in having the good bits if you then flail a leg out and put it on a plate for their lad to score? Ultimately it's his individual error that has cost us the game. Mistakes happen, even from the very best, but it's something Kilman has always had and at 26 I don't think he's cutting it out of his game.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Said it last night & I'll say it again. Kilman was having a good game, but what's the point in having the good bits if you then flail a leg out and put it on a plate for their lad to score? Ultimately it's his individual error that has cost us the game. Mistakes happen, even from the very best, but it's something Kilman has always had and at 26 I don't think he's cutting it out of his game.

Absolutely (and he's 27 next month)

Different styles of play but it's not so wildly different from what we used to get from Stearman in the Premier League well over a decade ago.

 

[WVWolf]

Boubacar Traore's lack of involvement this season has been unfair.

Lemina and Gomes' best level is definitely better than his right now. But, when they're not on form, he deserves a chance, he's a good player.

A real positive from the past two games and should start on Saturday.

 

[Tony Towner]

Unless we put a midfielder or full back there then we are going to have to play a back 4 on Saturday. If that is the case I'd start him ahead of Doyle as the 3rd midfielder, he's been better in both games.