Fulham 2-0 verdict thread

[Derby Wolf]

I'm not going to trawl through match ratings, but here last month he describes him as one of our star performers.

https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...olves-plan-to-make-willy-boly-deal-permanent/

Like a few he does wax lyrical on occasion but he seems eager to stick the boot in when things don't go well either. Beyond justified criticism at times IMO. There's a few in his ratings where the feedback don't correlate with the rating..

 

[Johnny75]

I've yet to work out why anybody gives reporters any credence to their opinion on football. I've only read and encountered 3 that I think know anything about the game of football, not the soap opera of transfers and pundit opinions but the game itself.

I would say Tim Spiers is as football illiterate a person I've ever read or listened to. His knowledge of the game of football is on a par with the 'shouty dad' at an U9's bottom of the pile kids game.

 

[Tony Towner]

I've only read and encountered 3 that I think know anything about the game of football, not the soap opera of transfers and pundit opinions but the game itself.

Be interested to know who?

 

[Johnny75]

Michael Calvin, Jonathon Wilson and Balague. They read and listen as genuine students of the game with real insight. I don't always agree with their thoughts but at least they rationalise them with knowledge.

People rave about Ollie Holt, Barclay, Samuels and their ilk but I just don't think they have a great understanding of the game of football itself, the techniques, tactics, strategies, management techniques and mental abilities.

Just my opinion mind you and I'm sure all of those men will say well what do I know (as in me not them).

Listening to people like Jonny Philips you see he has a love of football as an industry but I'm not sure he has any better understanding of the game than any of us (mainly on this board who seem knowledgeable of the game itself). And knowing what I know about people like DW and YW I would say their knowledge eclipses most reporters and pundits we see on TV and social media.

I think the days of listening to the reporter for knowledgeable insight on the game has gone. Motson is a dinosaur who's style hasn't changed for 40 years and he is currently a great example of a style which is completely out of touch with modern fans with the kind of data he spouts having been and gone in blink of an eye.

 

[Tony Towner]

Michael Calvin, Jonathon Wilson and Balague. They read and listen as genuine students of the game with real insight. I don't always agree with their thoughts but at least they rationalise them with knowledge.

People rave about Ollie Holt, Barclay, Samuels and their ilk but I just don't think they have a great understanding of the game of football itself, the techniques, tactics, strategies, management techniques and mental abilities.

Just my opinion mind you and I'm sure all of those men will say well what do I know (as in me not them).

Listening to people like Jonny Philips you see he has a love of football as an industry but I'm not sure he has any better understanding of the game than any of us (mainly on this board who seem knowledgeable of the game itself). And knowing what I know about people like DW and YW I would say their knowledge eclipses most reporters and pundits we see on TV and social media.

I think the days of listening to the reporter for knowledgeable insight on the game has gone. Motson is a dinosaur who's style hasn't changed for 40 years and he is currently a great example of a style which is completely out of touch with modern fans with the kind of data he spouts having been and gone in blink of an eye.

Thanks for replying. I think there is a distinction between pundits and reporters, I like Neville and Carragher for instance. I liked what GN did yesterday, I know some don't but he called what Arsenal's midfield was doing 20 seconds before the 3rd goal, that was insightful. I also like Henry Winter, I know his public school background isn't to everyone's cup of tea, but he does seem to understand the game and is on a different level to Samuel, Wallace, Holt et al. Controversially I'm not a fan of some of those that are seen as patriarchs of Fleet Street like Lawton and Mcllvanney, I can admire the writing but always came across with a touch or pomposity to me.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Danny Taylor is the best writer out there at the moment for me. I wish I could write like he does.

David Conn is superb in his own niche as well.

 

[Tredman]

Was going to say Taylor too, fantastic writer.

Ballague is a dick though.

 

[Johnny75]

I think most pundits are terrible these days. Neville is excellent IMO and oddly I like Higginbotham, Souness, Bilic and Strachan as they are articulate and give reason for what they are thinking. I don't agree with all of them but at least their understanding of the game is a a perspective that is relatable and it is worth listening to them. There are the obvious buffoons and morons that are pundits and they aren't worth the space here.

I don't like Winter as I think he thinks he knows everything there is to know and has seen it all and I don't think he's as clever as he thinks he is, it's almost sneering. But then he's a journalist not an expert in football as a game and so are the others you have mentioned. I just don't understand why people give their rating and thoughts any more credence than that of a post on any football forum or social media. I like reading a decent match report or finding a good report on analytics or players that people think are good and why they're having an effect on the team. I can't remember who wrote the report on Nuno's tactics but it was an interesting perspective even though I thought the conclusions were completely wrong.

But then that probably says more about my tastes rather than what people want from their football reporting. I struggle to find who Spiers would appeal to, he really has nothing in his Wolves match reports that you couldn't find on twitter/ corner of a pub/ internet forum/ facebook and people seem to want to give him the attention and adulation like he knows something about football. Bizarre.

 

[Norman Deeley]

Would be wonderful wouldn't it if there was a footy programme that binned off people like Saunders and Shearer and had really knowledgeable fans discussing the game.

 

[Johnny75]

Danny Taylor is the best writer out there at the moment for me. I wish I could write like he does.

David Conn is superb in his own niche as well.

Forgot about Taylor, good writer. I still don't think he's any more knowledgeable on the game than many of us though. Conn illustrates my point on the difference between journalists and knowledge of the game perfectly. A very good journo but I haven't read anything insightful on the game from him at all. With the good pundits and columnists they pick up on the nuances, formation changes and flows of the game and why they happen, and as good as Conn and Taylor are I just don't think they do that.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Would be wonderful wouldn't it if there was a footy programme that binned off people like Saunders and Shearer and had really knowledgeable fans discussing the game.

I absolutely loved the European Football Show on BT. Richardson anchoring and Auclair/Honigstein were superb. Proper insight. So good that I could even forgive them having James Horncastle on every week, and I despise him. But they binned it.

Was talking to Kenny during the World Cup draw and he'd never seen Tim Vickery on TV before - for some weird reason the BBC hide him away and only put him on Five Live in the witching hours. But he is amazing. His knowledge is unreal.

But no, I really want to hear what Michael Owen thinks, please. I can't wait to hear from a man who "doesn't like films" and spent a year living in Madrid, driving to the airport every day to buy English papers.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Forgot about Taylor, good writer. I still don't think he's any more knowledgeable on the game than many of us though. Conn illustrates my point on the difference between journalists and knowledge of the game perfectly. A very good journo but I haven't read anything insightful on the game from him at all. With the good pundits and columnists they pick up on the nuances, formation changes and flows of the game and why they happen, and as good as Conn and Taylor are I just don't think they do that.

Conn specialises on the financial side (I dabble in that bit, but nowhere near to that level) and he is tremendous at it. Exposed a lot of shady owners well before the issues became public.

On general football, yeah, he's just a good writer, nothing more than that.

 

[Johnny75]

Would be wonderful wouldn't it if there was a footy programme that binned off people like Saunders and Shearer and had really knowledgeable fans discussing the game.

Sadly I think I'm (and by the looks of things, most of us) are not the main consumers of football and people like to see Shearer, Jenas, Carragher, Beagrie and that gurning welsh idiot on their TV.

 

[jd1981]

Higginbottom, Nevill, Murphy and Carragher as ex pros are the best imo. As journo’s go much prefer those who’ve come from abroad like Auclair, Honingstein and Marcotti.
It’s the same attitude by some ex pros you’ve never played the game so you can’t possibly have a reasoned opinion.

 

[Johnny75]

I absolutely loved the European Football Show on BT. Richardson anchoring and Auclair/Honigstein were superb. Proper insight. So good that I could even forgive them having James Horncastle on every week, and I despise him. But they binned it.

Was talking to Kenny during the World Cup draw and he'd never seen Tim Vickery on TV before - for some weird reason the BBC hide him away and only put him on Five Live in the witching hours. But he is amazing. His knowledge is unreal.

But no, I really want to hear what Michael Owen thinks, please. I can't wait to hear from a man who "doesn't like films" and spent a year living in Madrid, driving to the airport every day to buy English papers.

I liked the football show and agree on Vickery but then we're football nerds (and I mean most of us in this discussion btw) and a football show on Youtube is probably the best we could hope for. Vickery's insights on South American football are eye opening.

Fuck knows who thinks it's a good idea to employ Owen, Sutton, Hoddle and the rest of those bellends on BT. May as well get people from the pub.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I tried watching the BT Score programme once a few months ago, just for novelty. Ten minutes in, they hadn't talked about any game going on at all. Just endless Proper Football Man bantz between Ince, Matt....Smith...Saunders and some other fucking knob who was so uninspiring I've forgotten who it was. So bad. Eventually a goal in one of the PL games went in and they described it, but all the time goals were flying in during the Football League games and they weren't even mentioning them at all.

Plenty of idiots on the Soccer Saturday panel (I wish they hadn't sent McInally out on reporting duty, I liked him a lot) but it's still a very good show and Jeff is still the best at that job by a mile.

 

[LG Wolf]

Agree on Vickery. His knowledge of not only current and historical football in South America is ridiculous, but he also relates it to each individual country and political and/or social back drops. He’s outstanding. Seems a really nice bloke too.

The World Football Phone In on 5 Live is absolutely superb.

 

[jd1981]

I liked the football show and agree on Vickery but then we're football nerds (and I mean most of us in this discussion btw) and a football show on Youtube is probably the best we could hope for. Vickery's insights on South American football are eye opening.

$#@! knows who thinks it's a good idea to employ Owen, Sutton, Hoddle and the rest of those bellends on BT. May as well get people from the pub.

It’s the names they think people will be attracted to listen to, Sutton comes out with controversies just to get himself noticed at times.
Forget to mention Tim Vickery and his insight into South American football, use to love his slot on H & J on Talksport.
Amazing knowledge of just about every player he is asked about or team etc.

 

[jd1981]

Agree on Vickery. His knowledge of not only current and historical football in South America is ridiculous, but he also relates it to each individual country and political and/or social back drops. He’s outstanding. Seems a really nice bloke too.

The World Football Phone In on 5 Live is absolutely superb.

What time is it on didn’t even know about it?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

What time is it on didn’t even know about it?

Unless you're an insomniac then just grab the podcast (and hope Dotun isn't hosting, the massive prick).

Higginbotham really impressed me the one time I caught a moody stream of one of our U21 (as was) games on MUTV, he'd properly done his research into our players. He is excellent. I quite like Hinchcliffe as well, Goodman is decent too, you can tell he holds back when commenting on us though - he properly loved his time here and doesn't want to come across as biased.