Brighton 3-3 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Tredman]

I’m very much in the get to 40 points as soon as possible, and forget this season ever happened camp. Anything else is a bonus.

Me too, good for the kids to get experience too. Other than that the whole of this season can get in the bin.

 

[redvictor]

Absolutely 100% Nuno in for me. Change the manager means change all the staff, players out and new players in. It's a good season before you ever see the proper result.
Look at Southampton. Lose 9-0 and some clubs would have just booted him. Now see where they are.
Nuno is having a bump in the road. Huge injury list, trying to change the way we play so we aren't as predictable. It would be utter madness to even consider it.
I am really confident he (and the players) will get it right and push on. Like others have said this season is null and void for me, and i don't think fans will be back in the stadium before the end of the season.
I also think the players are solidly behind Nuno, and they aren't going anywhere, even with no Europe next year.

 

[AndyWolves]

Doc did by Spurs (or his agent did anyway). Which I don't care about, that's been happening for a long long time.

We are not in a position to get a massive bid from Liverpool for a player who lest we forget, couldn't even get in our team towards the end of last season, and tell him he can't go. Just won't happen.

Maybe one day but not now.

Yeah, not disputing that. Jota looked pony towards the end of his stay with us, well below his standard, I was wondering if that was because he'd been tapped up or knew Liverpool were interested

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

As I say, we haven't even played that badly.

Arsenal - awful, awful injury to our best player. Must have been shocking to the players to see a mate in that condition. We won and deserved to.
Liverpool - yes, poor for us to give up at 0-2 (Nuno has acknowledged this). We were at least on par first half though. One individual error cost us.
Villa - no way we deserved to lose that game. Not saying we were playing swashbuckling stuff but we had by far the better chances, they had one half chance and a 95th minute penalty.
Chelsea - beat them, deserved to beat them too.
Burnley - agreed, awful, no good words to say there
Spurs - awful goal to give away then dominated for the remaining 89+ minutes. A draw the very least we deserved
United - played excellently as pretty much any review in the media will back up. 93rd minute deflected winner FFS.
Brighton - so much overreaction to this. Better team in the first half by a distance, 3-1 was fair. Stupid penalty. Invited pressure and we shouldn't have. But still should have won at the end!

This is not us playing like utter shite, we're up and down. I'm ok with that, I'm fine with people not being ok with it. The raging and keyboard thumping though...I don't get it. Chill out a bit. If anyone (one person, I'm not Rockefeller) wants £100 with me and I say we'll stay up this year, you say we'll go down, feel free.

 

[redvictor]

As I say, we haven't even played that badly.

Arsenal - awful, awful injury to our best player. Must have been shocking to the players to see a mate in that condition. We won and deserved to.
Liverpool - yes, poor for us to give up at 0-2 (Nuno has acknowledged this). We were at least on par first half though. One individual error cost us.
Villa - no way we deserved to lose that game. Not saying we were playing swashbuckling stuff but we had by far the better chances, they had one half chance and a 95th minute penalty.
Chelsea - beat them, deserved to beat them too.
Burnley - agreed, awful, no good words to say there
Spurs - awful goal to give away then dominated for the remaining 89+ minutes. A draw the very least we deserved
United - played excellently as pretty much any review in the media will back up. 93rd minute deflected winner FFS.
Brighton - so much overreaction to this. Better team in the first half by a distance, 3-1 was fair. Stupid penalty. Invited pressure and we shouldn't have. But still should have won at the end!

This is not us playing like utter shite, we're up and down. I'm ok with that, I'm fine with people not being ok with it. The raging and keyboard thumping though...I don't get it. Chill out a bit. If anyone (one person, I'm not Rockefeller) wants £100 with me and I say we'll stay up this year, you say we'll go down, feel free.

Agree with everything. You can stick your bet up your arse. No offence...lol

 

[redvictor]

Are Liverpool fans going to be saying Klopp out? On twitter probably... It's a crazy season!

 

[prawnking]

Me too, good for the kids to get experience too. Other than that the whole of this season can get in the bin.

I've seen a few people say this, and it has a nice 'common sense' ring to it, but it has some pretty small-time undercurrents that I can't fully get behind. I doubt anyone would be thinking this if we were in Leicester or Southampton's position. I hope no-one at the club is thinking this.

However disruptive and unsatisfying this season is, the records will still have a Champion, teams that qualify for Europe and teams that go down. We'll most certainly be none of those things, but this cosy, slightly complacent talk of transitions and lowering of expectations isn't a good thing IMO. It's OK to still hold Nuno and the players to the standards they've set.

We may be able to lose momentum, finish 16th and pick up where we left off in 2019/20 next season, but there's no guarantee

 

[Tony Towner]

I've seen a few people say this, and it has a nice 'common sense' ring to it, but it has some pretty small-time undercurrents that I can't fully get behind. I doubt anyone would be thinking this if we were in Leicester or Southampton's position. I hope no-one at the club is thinking this.

However disruptive and unsatisfying this season is, the records will still have a Champion, teams that qualify for Europe and teams that go down. We'll most certainly be none of those things, but this cosy, slightly complacent talk of transitions and lowering of expectations isn't a good thing IMO. It's OK to still hold Nuno and the players to the standards they've set.

We may be able to lose momentum, finish 16th and pick up where we left off in 2019/20 next season, but there's no guarantee

I think you are conflating two different things. The transition, 1 step back to take 2 forward, call it what you will is separate at least to me to the whole soulless charade being played out because of Covid. I enjoy chatting about Wolves on here (mainly) , but not the games, because to me they are a really poor imitation of the real thing.

Because of the latter the former becomes what makes the season interesting, but I don't believe Covid dictated that strategy and nor do I think it was particularly well executed, however we are where we are and so if that becomes what makes this season worthwhile then so be it.

 

[prawnking]

I think you are conflating two different things. The transition, 1 step back to take 2 forward, call it what you will is separate at least to me to the whole soulless charade being played out because of Covid. I enjoy chatting about Wolves on here (mainly) , but not the games, because to me they are a really poor imitation of the real thing.

Because of the latter the former becomes what makes the season interesting, but I don't believe Covid dictated that strategy and nor do I think it was particularly well executed, however we are where we are and so if that becomes what makes this season worthwhile then so be it.

I get the distinction but I can see the transition, unreal football environment, our injury list and even Nuno missing his family being mixed together to almost void the season in people's minds.

All teams are dealing with many of these elements, to a greater or lesser degree. Other managers have had their share of injuries and I'm sure miss their family too. I just don't want any constructive criticism/analysis/expectations of the season being overly diluted or nullified, as if we're the only team playing in this conditions

 

[oslowolf]

Prawnking and Redvictor you may be right and the players maybe can play more attacking style, but that would mean the coaching staff is getting it wrong. This does not mean a want sackings and complete upheaval, just a small change in approach from Nuno and staff.

As of now we focus our attacks down the flanks with no support from the midfield in the box. The only presence in the box was/is Silva atm. Our wingers are expected to do ot all by themselves.

Put an extra strike on so that Silva could make use of his skills with good positioning and runs. He isnt physically good enough nor fast enough to play a lone striker in both a holding or counter game.

Brighton had 3 or 4 in our box when they attacked.

Dendoncker arrives late in the box which has lead to a fair amount of chances. Moutinho and Neves holds back in similar circumstances.

Imo that is why we dont score from open play.

 

[Tredman]

As of now we focus our attacks down the flanks with no support from the midfield in the box. The only presence in the box was/is Silva atm. Our wingers are expected to do ot all by themselves.

Put an extra strike on so that Silva could make use of his skills with good positioning and runs. He isnt physically good enough nor fast enough to play a lone striker in both a holding or counter game.

Brighton had 3 or 4 in our box when they attacked.

Dendoncker arrives late in the box which has lead to a fair amount of chances. Moutinho and Neves holds back in similar circumstances.

Imo that is why we dont score from open play.

Welcome to the forum.

It’s definitely one of the reasons, as bad as Otasowie’s miss was there would have been zero chance of Neves, Moutinho or even Vitinha even being there. I keep going back to it, but we look our best with Donk/Otasowie with Neves/Moutinho

 

[oslowolf]

Welcome to the forum.

It’s definitely one of the reasons, as bad as Otasowie’s miss was there would have been zero chance of Neves, Moutinho or even Vitinha even being there. I keep going back to it, but we look our best with Donk/Otasowie with Neves/Moutinho

Thank you, been around for a while though.

I quite like the idea of two holding midfielders with the balance it offers.The movement into the box can come from anywhere. Our wing or full backs could cut inside and attack the box like Doherty used to. Now they are mostly ineffectual, ie podence and Ait Nouri, and Semedo/Traore, often occupying the same space.

 

[Tredman]

Thank you, been around for a while though.

I quite like the idea of two holding midfielders with the balance it offers.The movement into the box can come from anywhere. Our wing or full backs could cut inside and attack the box like Doherty used to. Now they are mostly ineffectual, ie podence and Ait Nouri, and Semedo/Traore, often occupying the same space.

You should post more then

Good point on Doc, he did provide the presence in the box as a late breaking WB. Semedo too often seems to try and go outside Traore which is pointless. We seemed, against Brighton, to be trying more to get Traore to cut inside so it might work. RAN is also pretty good as an attacked - needs to get in the box more, but he does often seem to get ignored by Pod or Neto.

 

[Haggstone]

As I say, we haven't even played that badly.

Arsenal - awful, awful injury to our best player. Must have been shocking to the players to see a mate in that condition. We won and deserved to.
Liverpool - yes, poor for us to give up at 0-2 (Nuno has acknowledged this). We were at least on par first half though. One individual error cost us.
Villa - no way we deserved to lose that game. Not saying we were playing swashbuckling stuff but we had by far the better chances, they had one half chance and a 95th minute penalty.
Chelsea - beat them, deserved to beat them too.
Burnley - agreed, awful, no good words to say there
Spurs - awful goal to give away then dominated for the remaining 89+ minutes. A draw the very least we deserved
United - played excellently as pretty much any review in the media will back up. 93rd minute deflected winner FFS.
Brighton - so much overreaction to this. Better team in the first half by a distance, 3-1 was fair. Stupid penalty. Invited pressure and we shouldn't have. But still should have won at the end!

This is not us playing like utter shite, we're up and down. I'm ok with that, I'm fine with people not being ok with it. The raging and keyboard thumping though...I don't get it. Chill out a bit. If anyone (one person, I'm not Rockefeller) wants £100 with me and I say we'll stay up this year, you say we'll go down, feel free.

So we’ve averaged a point a game during that spell, not great over the course of a season of course.....,but factoring in that we have played four of the so called big six in that time and that we have had a lot of injuries too, it’s not exactly a disasterous points haul either. I’m not particularly enjoying my football at the moment, I suspect many others aren’t either, but I’m intrigued as to why anyone would suggest Nuno is failing.

Failing at what?

 

[Johnny75]

You should post more then

Good point on Doc, he did provide the presence in the box as a late breaking WB. Semedo too often seems to try and go outside Traore which is pointless. We seemed, against Brighton, to be trying more to get Traore to cut inside so it might work. RAN is also pretty good as an attacked - needs to get in the box more, but he does often seem to get ignored by Pod or Neto.

I believe this is part of the transition, in that we have stopped inverting the wingbacks and started to play with wider men who cut inside from the flank (Traore and Neto).

With that we need both an attacking midfielder and mobile striker. We need a Dele Ali/ Kai Havertz type behind a fast mobile striker to play 4-2-3-1. At the moment we have neither. I agree with Oslo in that the two deeper midfielders are fine but without that attacking spearhead we’re going to have zero attacking threat.

I don’t believe either RAN or Semedo were bought as wing backs and if they were then they were badly scouted as neither invert well at all.

 

[Tredman]

I believe this is part of the transition, in that we have stopped inverting the wingbacks and started to play with wider men who cut inside from the flank (Traore and Neto).

With that we need both an attacking midfielder and mobile striker. We need a Dele Ali/ Kai Havertz type behind a fast mobile striker to play 4-2-3-1. At the moment we have neither. I agree with Oslo in that the two deeper midfielders are fine but without that attacking spearhead we’re going to have zero attacking threat.

I don’t believe either RAN or Semedo were bought as wing backs and if they were then they were badly scouted as neither invert well at all.

I'd still rather we play 3-4-3, but in that case we need a new CM who can break into the box (assuming that's not Otasowie). A replacement for N'diaye

 

[Tony Towner]

I get the distinction but I can see the transition, unreal football environment, our injury list and even Nuno missing his family being mixed together to almost void the season in people's minds.

All teams are dealing with many of these elements, to a greater or lesser degree. Other managers have had their share of injuries and I'm sure miss their family too. I just don't want any constructive criticism/analysis/expectations of the season being overly diluted or nullified, as if we're the only team playing in this conditions

If you take each point one by one, being harsh you could argue we've brought each one on ourselves, or not mitigated sufficiently against them but they are genuine:

Injuries - Everybody gets them, but our squad is famously, by choice, smaller than others, so doesn't take many to eat into our depth. When one of those is the one player you can't afford to lose it's a killer

Transition in play - Can argue about the timing or the players but again is genuine. Who would have predicted a back 4 2 months ago? We had become predictable, something needed to change, for me it was 3412, but this is the route Nuno has gone down.

Pandemic impact - Obviously not unique to us...but our manager lives on his own in a different country from the rest of his family, except for his son who is at Uni in the UK. All by choice, but how many other managers does it impact like that? There was a good article on The Athletic about a year ago about the community that had developed around our foreign and particularly Portuguese players, how their families mixed and socialised together. Assuming they are following the rules, this will now have disappeared. Ok, they see each other at training, but their wives will be at home, seeing nobody, looking after kids, often in their early 20's, this has to put pressure on the home life and impact on their happiness and mental health.

Lack of fans - Again impacts everyone, but as much as it makes my skin crawl with the whole pack marketing thing, the players and especially Nuno really do buy into it. I believe it's affecting performance above the average norm

Performance to expectation- Being an extremely sad man at the start of the season, I set a points target and where those points should come from. This year that was to match last season's 59, which with zero pre season I believed to be a credible result. We haven't got our points from the games I expected we would, but we are on exactly the points predicted to reach that goal. So although elements of some performances have been poor and frustrating - the concession of soft goals my biggest concern, we are on par. A couple of caveats to that; 59 points won't get 7th this season and to stay on track we need to win our next two league games.

I guess what i'm trying to highlight is there's a fine line between excuses and reasons and although in the majority of the above it's fairly easy to say 'the club should have done xyz' it doesn't stop them from being genuine

 

[Johnny75]

I'd still rather we play 3-4-3, but in that case we need a new CM who can break into the box (assuming that's not Otasowie). A replacement for N'diaye

If that is the case then we should sell Traore as he can’t play in 3-4-3 at all, particularly without inverted wing backs.

We should be changing our recruitment strategy to buying a high pressure CF like Vardy instead of a player with relatively poor pace like Fabio.

If we do go 4-3-2-1 then a player like MGW may well fit the bill and is probably worth recalling in Jan to play behind a CF.

 

[YoungWolf]

I think if Morgan hadn't got injured and his form was consistently as he started the season, there'd be a really good argument for that. I'd leave it for this season now, get a wide attacker and a striker and then evaluate when MGW gets back. His best role is definitely as a ten attacking the box I think, like in the U17 World Cup where he was very good and kept some good players out of the team.

 

[prawnking]

If you take each point one by one, being harsh you could argue we've brought each one on ourselves, or not mitigated sufficiently against them but they are genuine:

Injuries - Everybody gets them, but our squad is famously, by choice, smaller than others, so doesn't take many to eat into our depth. When one of those is the one player you can't afford to lose it's a killer

Transition in play - Can argue about the timing or the players but again is genuine. Who would have predicted a back 4 2 months ago? We had become predictable, something needed to change, for me it was 3412, but this is the route Nuno has gone down.

Pandemic impact - Obviously not unique to us...but our manager lives on his own in a different country from the rest of his family, except for his son who is at Uni in the UK. All by choice, but how many other managers does it impact like that? There was a good article on The Athletic about a year ago about the community that had developed around our foreign and particularly Portuguese players, how their families mixed and socialised together. Assuming they are following the rules, this will now have disappeared. Ok, they see each other at training, but their wives will be at home, seeing nobody, looking after kids, often in their early 20's, this has to put pressure on the home life and impact on their happiness and mental health.

Lack of fans - Again impacts everyone, but as much as it makes my skin crawl with the whole pack marketing thing, the players and especially Nuno really do buy into it. I believe it's affecting performance above the average norm

Performance to expectation- Being an extremely sad man at the start of the season, I set a points target and where those points should come from. This year that was to match last season's 59, which with zero pre season I believed to be a credible result. We haven't got our points from the games I expected we would, but we are on exactly the points predicted to reach that goal. So although elements of some performances have been poor and frustrating - the concession of soft goals my biggest concern, we are on par. A couple of caveats to that; 59 points won't get 7th this season and to stay on track we need to win our next two league games.

I guess what i'm trying to highlight is there's a fine line between excuses and reasons and although in the majority of the above it's fairly easy to say 'the club should have done xyz' it doesn't stop them from being genuine

All good points. I wouldn't want to come across as overly harsh, I just think as a community on here we're quite soft on Nuno and Fosun (and rightly so to a degree), so considering other perspectives gives a little more balance (imo of course).

It's OK to have high expectations, doesn't necessarily equate with being entitled and spoiled (I can understand that criticism being levelled at some social media numpties), it's a compliment in many ways.