Boro (H) 5/8/17 build up

[Elephant Pyjamas]

A central midfield 2 of Neves with Price/Saiss/Ronan will get totally overwhelmed in my opinion, i'm fearful of how well 343 will work.

The reason it works so well for Chelsea is because they have a total freak in Kante playing for them.

 

[The Bear]

Doherty at RWB. Then if we need to go more attacking in the 2nd half, sub Docherty off for Graham and use him more as an orthodox winger.

 

[Lycan]

A central midfield 2 of Neves with Price/Saiss/Ronan will get totally overwhelmed in my opinion, i'm fearful of how well 343 will work.

The reason it works so well for Chelsea is because they have a total freak in Kante playing for them.

It wont get overwhelmed at all. It's not just Neves + one other against the opposition. When we're in possession the central defender pushes up to join the midfield and when we're defending in wide areas the wing back on the near side becomes a full back and the one on the far side tucks in to make it a 3 man midfield.

In possession:



It'll either be one of Price/Saiss/Ronan/Herc in there next to Neves, in which case it'll be a pretty basic double pivot or Edwards/Gibbs-White playing slightly further forward as a box-to-box midfielder and Neves dropping even deeper. I think we'll see Neves lining up on the opposite side to the full back we think is most vulnerable defensively so he can switch play quickly to find our wing back in space and cause an overload.

When we lose the ball the high line and strength in numbers centrally should force teams to go wide, which is what I think will trigger us to press the man in possession, trapping the full back/wide midfielder against the touchline and limiting his options.

Defending in wide areas:



That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Peter_Knowles_Ghost]

What are the odds on both Edwards and Doherty playing against Boro?

 

[Freddeno]

I would like to see Price with Neves in the middle, not Saiss..passes is spread everywhere but right from Saiss..hopefully Nuno will go with that

 

[pr0sl0]

What are the odds on both Edwards and Doherty playing against Boro?

Edwards only as a sub, and even then unlikely, I think. He's not been a regular starter in pre-season, and he clearly doesn't suit the passing game Nuno wants.

Doherty is our only natural RWB though, so I think he's nailed on, as much as Graham impressed there against Peterborough. With Cav and Costa out I think we need Graham up top.

 

[Lycan]

Hopefully Marshall's injury isn't serious. He'd be perfect for that RWB role IMO.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It wont get overwhelmed at all. It's not just Neves + one other against the opposition. When we're in possession the central defender pushes up to join the midfield and when we're defending in wide areas the wing back on the near side becomes a full back and the one on the far side tucks in to make it a 3 man midfield.

Well time will tell, but i don't think it'll work as well and as simply as you suggest, expecting wing backs to temporarily become centre midfielders and CBs likewise is very optimistic. Do we expect our players to have the footballing intelligence to do that? With the likes of Coady, Batth and Doherty, not for me. I think we will get over exposed, hopefully i am underestimating the quality of Neves, but any of his potential partners aren't good enough.

 

[Lycan]

Well time will tell, but i don't think it'll work as well and as simply as you suggest, expecting wing backs to temporarily become centre midfielders and CBs likewise is very optimistic. Do we expect our players to have the footballing intelligence to do that? With the likes of Coady, Batth and Doherty, not for me. I think we will get over exposed, hopefully i am underestimating the quality of Neves, but any of his potential partners aren't good enough.

It's not optimistic, it's basic tactical awareness. You don't need to be Pep Guardiola to have a decent grasp of it. We've also bought players like Miranda, Boly, Neves, Jota etc who are tactically astute and have played with Nuno before.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It's not optimistic, it's basic tactical awareness. You don't need to be Pep Guardiola to have a decent grasp of it. We've also bought players like Miranda, Boly, Neves, Jota etc who are tactically astute and have played with Nuno before.

Well Doherty for example doesn't have the "basic tactical awareness" to function and position himself correctly as an effective full back, so to expect him to be able to slot inside to centre midfield when needed IS optimistic.

You are making the assumption that the players we have signed are tactically astute, we don't KNOW that for sure at this point. Also it's important to remember that Nuno hasn't played 343 at his previous clubs, so those players that played under him won't have either.

I think it's very optimistic to expect a team of players that haven't played this formation before, with a manager who hasn't used the formation before to gel and kick on very quickly, i hope that we don't spend 6-10 weeks trying to make a tactic work on players that aren't suited to it.

 

[slink]

Well Doherty for example doesn't have the "basic tactical awareness" to function position himself correctly as an effective full back, so to expect him to be able to slot inside to centre midfield when needed IS optimistic.

You are making the assumption that the players we have signed are tactically astute, we don't KNOW that for sure at this point. Also it's important to remember that Nuno hasn't played 343 at his previous clubs, so those players that played under him won't have either.

I think it's very optimistic to expect a team of players that haven't played this formation before, with a manager who hasn't used the formation before to gel and kick on very quickly, i hope that we don't spend 6-10 weeks trying to make a tactic work on players that aren't suited to it.

Doherty does have the basic tactical awareness to position himself correctly, he was just a a lazy bastard that wouldn't get back when forward. I don't think Nuno will accept that and Doc looks thinner and will be fitter this year. If he doesn't get back then he will be out of the team.

I think it will take time for this formation to click and i'm not completely sold on it myself, mainly in an attacking sense as i don't see enough players getting into the box or us having enough options to play forward and quickly when we win it back. This is why the striker signing is the most important.

I think defensively we will be fine because of the amount of bodies we have there and from the friendlies so far it looks like they have been well drilled on what Nuno wants and they all look comfortable doing it. Obviously not competitive games but good signs that the understand their roles and shape needed when we don't have the ball.

 

[b3h]

Good post Proslo.

And if defending that way, it's even more reason to not stick Graham at RWB IMO, as he'll end up at RB when defending his flank (Yack). As much as I am really not fond of Gloves. Will be nice when Marshall/Phil are back and hopefully challenging for that RWB slot.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Good post Proslo.

And if defending that way, it's even more reason to not stick Graham at RWB IMO, as he'll end up at RB when defending his flank (Yack). As much as I am really not fond of Gloves. Will be nice when Marshall/Phil are back and hopefully challenging for that RWB slot.

Or to have the WBs coming inside into CM as Lycan suggests, which is equally yack.

Not that i recall either Moses or Alonso doing that for Chelsea when they are defending!

 

[Freddeno]

Or to have the WBs coming inside into CM as Lycan suggests, which is equally yack.

Not that i recall either Moses or Alonso doing that for Chelsea when they are defending!

Pep-esque tactics

 

[Freddeno]

But in the build up play

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Middlesbrough have signed another striker, Ashley Fletcher from West Ham for about £6m. They certainly mean business, and will be very tough opponents next weekend.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Or to have the WBs coming inside into CM as Lycan suggests, which is equally yack.

Not that i recall either Moses or Alonso doing that for Chelsea when they are defending!

Yeah I don't see Chelsea tucking wingbacks in to bolster midfield either.

Generally the wingback who's being directly attacked ends up deeper as they press the man with the ball and the one on the other side naturally stays a little higher up watching for a run from the opposition fullback as he's passed the winger in to the spare centre half. When Chelsea were being pegged back in games they went more like 5-4-1 with Hazard/Pedro coming back to more conventional wide roles in front of Alonso/Moses and they just relied on the edge man at centre half to mop things up rather than pack out central midfield.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Yeah I don't see Chelsea tucking wingbacks in to bolster midfield either.

Generally the wingback who's being directly attacked ends up deeper as they press the man with the ball and the one on the other side naturally stays a little higher up watching for a run from the opposition fullback as he's passed the winger in to the spare centre half. When Chelsea were being pegged back in games they went more like 5-4-1 with Hazard/Pedro coming back to more conventional wide roles in front of Alonso/Moses and they just relied on the edge man at centre half to mop things up rather than pack out central midfield.

Yes, I would agree with that.

 

[Johnny75]

Or to have the WBs coming inside into CM as Lycan suggests, which is equally yack.

Not that i recall either Moses or Alonso doing that for Chelsea when they are defending!

I don't think they will and from what I've seen in the friendlies I would expect to see:

With Douglas dropping into a left back position, Doherty pressing and Jota dropping into the middle with Dicko and Ronan occupying the defenders making sure none of them go maurading up the pitch. From what I've seen we try to clog up the space more than press the ball so cutting out options for the man on the ball (RB or RW). It allows an easy shuffle from left to right and the cross field balls can be intercepted by Douglas.

 

[Johnny75]

I would also think we start with this formation:

The box shape in the middle is key as it is the half spaces between midfielders and defenders on all sides that are key and operating in these spaces gives defensive possibilities of shuffling across as well as dropping into cover.

Attacking wise it relies on those full backs to push the opposition back and create a 5 against 4 over load. In reality this will be all about getting space from markers and using quick feet and angles to unlock the defence.

I expect Boro under Monk to play a relatively direct game and try to win second ball in midfield through Howson and Clayton/ De Roon. They are pedestrian at the back so our short passing game may well work to release Jota and Dicko off the last men. If that works and Boro counteract this with dropping deeper that should make them go longer and you would expect our 3 at the back to comfortably win headers and for Neves and Saiss to win the second ball and recycle to Ronan/ Jota who should have a lot more space at this point.

The first 15 minutes are going to be key here.