Wolves 0-1 Tottenham: Verdict Thread

[t3ch]

Garth Crooks outdoes himself, by including Deli Ali in his “team of the week”…

Who made Garth Crooks' team of the week?

Who should insist on being the main man and which midfielder plays like he's conducting an orchestra? Find out in Garth Crooks' team of the week.

www.bbc.co.uk

show us where the bodies are, garth

 

[darlowolf64]

Fair enough.

I seem to recall a lot of media attention after your promotion though, about how the owners were going to push Wolves onto becoming regular contenders for Europe etc...Which is hard to do without investment.

It may just have been fans getting carried away to be fair.

Not the fans. Fosun made it clear when they took over that there was a "10 year plan to have us challenging at the top end of the Premier League".
Perhaps they have seen, up close, how much they will have to put into recruitment for that to happen and are a little bit... er... reticent to do that now.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It is kind of the fans. Taking every statement 100% literally when it suits them is just silly, isn't it, plus what are the club meant to say? "We'll try to finish as high as we can but 10th is alright for a few years", I don't think so. If people did believe that we'd be regular Champions League contenders - when we've been broadly speaking a middling second tier team for most of the last 30 years - then more fool them.

They were never ever going to pour money into us forever, they're an investment firm, not a state-sponsored sportswashing outfit or rogue oligarchs.

 

[darlowolf64]

They took over and invested. Brought in players we really had no right in being able to sign. Promotion in Year 2.
They continued to invest in Year 3, bringing in more players I never thought I'd see play for Wolves like Moutinho. They were clever with their "loan to buy" and we had no reason to think that they wouldn't keep their word and try to take us to the next level (mid, upper Prem). a 7th place finish and an FA Cup semi final that we really should have won.
Year 4, perhaps not a great deal in new players, at least not to excite, but steady players with Neto being the pick and another 7th place finish.
Year 5, they took their eye off the ball and maybe believed that it was easy to achieve what they set out to do. A vanity signing in Silva where the money could have been invested in players ready to play. A serious injury to Raul and things started to implode a little. The decision that Nuno had run his course and the decision to seemingly just appoint whoever Mendes recommended.
Year 6; Oh, we have to sell to buy. Utter rubbish, the TV money should have been invested to push us on this season but, as yet, no major signing.
The fans were given the impression that the owners were deadly serious but are they now having second thoughts when faced with the reality?

 

[leon0286]

Not the fans. Fosun made it clear when they took over that there was a "10 year plan to have us challenging at the top end of the Premier League".
Perhaps they have seen, up close, how much they will have to put into recruitment for that to happen and are a little bit... er... reticent to do that now.

Well to be fair then, they still have that in their sights then don't they?

After winning the Championship, I remember our owners saying they were going to get us into the top 5 within 3 years and invest nearly £200 million....They were mocked of course. Still to this day, our title win was a 'fluke'....Even though every year since we won it, with the exception of Liverpool's title win, a player from that squad has won the league title, and Vardy has been at the top of the scoring charts pretty much every year.

Given Fosun, as you guys have made me much more aware, have an Investment background, maybe it's just their way of doing it over a longer period? 10 years seems far less risky, than 3, for example, and requires less initial investment?

I did think with the signing of Fabio Silva, that you guys were looking to make that jump towards challenging the top 6, much sooner. I thought there would be further investment, especially this summer. But maybe the club just believes he will be around, over the next 2-5 years, to be pivotal in helping the club towards that, and they couldn't miss out on him? I think it's pretty obvious, that Vardy/Kane figure up top, is so important for consistency in the league, and with the fee they paid for him, I imagine that has to be the aim for him, even though it is a lot of pressure.

Like I said before, after your promotion, I saw a lot of similarities in the way you approached the Premier League. Recruitment was slightly different of course, with your heavy focus on Portuguese talent....Which whilst also hugely beneficial, may have led you to reduce recruitment focus from other countries/regions.
But the approach over the last 12-24 months, with recruitment, has been odd.

 

[VanWolfie]

Thought at the time there wasn't much difference between the Alli pen and Semedo's

I agree entirely. Both penalties should not have been given, so if you give one, you have to give the other. But, as Slink says, the contact with Sa gave the referee a decision to make and the angle he saw it from he would have missed the dangled leg. But VAR should have reversed it because it was very clear on the replay what happened. However, Martin Atkinson was the VAR and he disagrees with overruling the on-field referee, so in both cases the penalty for Spurs was given and the one for Semado not given because Atwell made quick on-field decisions that Atkinson would not, on principle overrule. How do I know this? Do you remember when Wolves beat Man Utd 2-1 in the quarter final of the FA Cup and Atkinson, the on-field referee, issued a red to Lindalof, which the VAR reversed to a yellow. Behind the scenes, Atkinson was absolutely livid that he had been overruled and whenever he has been VAR since, has not reversed a decision of the on-field referee because he has not seen a "clear and obvious" error. I would argue that the replay of the Dele Ali incident clearly showed something that the on-field referee missed. Very poor on Atkinson's part.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed the game and endorse all the positivity that forum contributors have expressed. That was a very exciting game of football and the contrast with last season's dross was highlighted by the way Spurs played. I have come around to seeing the wisdom of the change of manager. Long may it continue and may the goals start coming soon.

 

[Charlie Wolf]

Yes?

Absolutely yes, previously he hasn’t got into a goal scoring position regularly enough to create the chance, now he is, on the evidence of the last two games.
That needs to continue and ‘surely’ the goals will come (he says with a massive crossing of the fingers!)

 

[Tredman]

On reflection I think I enjoyed yesterday’s performance more than any game I’ve been to since, probably, 18/19. Great attacking football, good defending and really nice movement.

Still need to turn it into goals though.. would have been nice to be able to bring someone like Mir off the bench yesterday.

Kilman has really surprised me, can’t drop him now he’s been superb.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Just watched MOTD2: Ian Wright wanged on for 5 minutes about how brilliant Deli Alli was. I must have watched a different game because other than winning a dubious penalty I thought he has complete and utter garbage, and our midfield 2 completely outplayed their 3 by an absolute fucking mile. The agendas these talking heads have on MOTD is what makes it an absolute joke of a programme for me and why I rarely bother to watch.

Alli conned the ref for the penalty and Atkinson on VAR should have overturned it. I think the penalty is blinding people to the rest of Alli’s performance though as he made a number of good tackles and interceptions. He played a lot deeper than he has in the past and certainly wasn’t garbage.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I agree entirely. Both penalties should not have been given, so if you give one, you have to give the other. But, as Slink says, the contact with Sa gave the referee a decision to make and the angle he saw it from he would have missed the dangled leg. But VAR should have reversed it because it was very clear on the replay what happened. However, Martin Atkinson was the VAR and he disagrees with overruling the on-field referee, so in both cases the penalty for Spurs was given and the one for Semado not given because Atwell made quick on-field decisions that Atkinson would not, on principle overrule. How do I know this? Do you remember when Wolves beat Man Utd 2-1 in the quarter final of the FA Cup and Atkinson, the on-field referee, issued a red to Lindalof, which the VAR reversed to a yellow. Behind the scenes, Atkinson was absolutely livid that he had been overruled and whenever he has been VAR since, has not reversed a decision of the on-field referee because he has not seen a "clear and obvious" error. I would argue that the replay of the Dele Ali incident clearly showed something that the on-field referee missed. Very poor on Atkinson's part.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed the game and endorse all the positivity that forum contributors have expressed. That was a very exciting game of football and the contrast with last season's dross was highlighted by the way Spurs played. I have come around to seeing the wisdom of the change of manager. Long may it continue and may the goals start coming soon.

I disagree on both penalties and imo Atkinson is correct in both when it comes to the VAR assessment. Either could go either way on the pitch and on that basis there is no clear and obvious error. No contact at all then I think VAR can over rule but if there is contact the on field referee‘s decision should stand.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

I disagree on both penalties and imo Atkinson is correct in both when it comes to the VAR assessment. Either could go either way on the pitch and on that basis there is no clear and obvious error. No contact at all then I think VAR can over rule but if there is contact the on field referee‘s decision should stand.

Not according to the new guidelines which make it clear that contact does not automatically mean it is a foul. From the Billy Wright I thought it was a stonewall penalty but watching it back it is clear Alli initiates the contact. Atkinson on VAR would be able to see that clearly so should have overturned it.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Alli conned the ref for the penalty and Atkinson on VAR should have overturned it. I think the penalty is blinding people to the rest of Alli’s performance though as he made a number of good tackles and interceptions. He played a lot deeper than he has in the past and certainly wasn’t garbage.

Aside from winning the penalty I thought he had almost zero impact in the game. He was far from the ‘brilliant’ Ian Wright claimed he was.

 

[Throbber3]

That still looks like Alli was completely looking for it. But we had enough chances to win . Must start scoring. Loving how we are playing. Max Kilman looks a bit good too.

I wouldn't go that far....

I just see a few similarities, with Wolves, to where Leicester were 2-3 years ago under Claude Puel.
An over reliance on players in certain positions, especially up front Jiminez/Vardy.

I thought, although admittedly there is still time, that Wolves would have invested some serious money this summer to try and correct/address that.

so would we mate, so would we.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Aside from winning the penalty I thought he had almost zero impact in the game. He was far from the ‘brilliant’ Ian Wright claimed he was.

There’s a lot of room between brilliant and garbage!

 

[Jinky]

On the referee, I genuinely cannot remember watching a game of football that Stuart Atwell has been in charge of, and come away thinking "ref has had a good game there". It is honestly every single game he is in charge of, he makes mistakes or his decisions are inconsistent. You literally want one thing from a referee - consistency.

As others have said, if he gives their penalty (and personally, I think it's a stone-waller, regardless of whether Ali dangled his leg in or not), then he has to give the one on Semedo - but it's the way he runs away throwing his arms out to his side in this "I'm so confident" fashion. Of course VAR isn't going to overturn it, but it's just the inconsistency of the decision making that I find baffling.

But there were other shocking calls. Raul clearly played the ball against (Skipp?) for a corner - Atwell gives a goal kick (and what's his assistant doing? - the ball took a blatant deflection). The Raul booking was a joke. Poor bloke is trying to get out of the way and avoid contact.

I don't like to blame refereeing decisions for the outcome of results, but it's fairly obvious that Atwell has, once again, had a direct impact on the scoreline because of his inconsistent decision making. But of course, absolutely nothing will be done about it. He'll be reffing another game next week and doing the same thing again.

 

[Jinky]

I'll also add, as good as we were and as refreshing as the performance was, I have to echo the concerns surrounding Coady. Having watched large chunks of the match back, it's difficult to disagree with those that have said he's holding us back.

He was completely flat footed for the Ali penalty incident. No where near cutting the pass out and no where near Ali's run. He was also out of position, under the ball and no where near the run of Kane when he went through for his shot (which Sa dealt with brilliantly). And then he got caught out for Son's chance (which Kilman bailed him out of) and then looked like he was running in treacle trying to get back at him.

I don't see how Coady starts in a 4, and I'm not sure we can justify playing a back three with the sole reason of keeping him in the team, either?

Top bloke, top pro and very likable fella, but I worry for him with the style of football Bruno wants to implement.

 

[WolfMan]

How this is a penalty is beyond me..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1429439456877203460

Should have been booked for diving there, what is the point of VAR.

 

[Kenny]

Well that angle makes it a dreadful call. He jumps into Sa.

 

[Lupollet]

It will be interesting to see if this performance is the norm or we'll drop off when we play the "lesser" teams.

Man Utd next in the league. Can't see any points from that either.

For me, this is the crucial question.

It may be that some signings make all the difference… but I’m worried that we look like plucky losers… straining every last sinew while the opponents are just serenely banking the points.

At what point to the performances begin to drop off when we keep deserving to win and getting nothing?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

They took over and invested. Brought in players we really had no right in being able to sign. Promotion in Year 2.
They continued to invest in Year 3, bringing in more players I never thought I'd see play for Wolves like Moutinho. They were clever with their "loan to buy" and we had no reason to think that they wouldn't keep their word and try to take us to the next level (mid, upper Prem). a 7th place finish and an FA Cup semi final that we really should have won.
Year 4, perhaps not a great deal in new players, at least not to excite, but steady players with Neto being the pick and another 7th place finish.
Year 5, they took their eye off the ball and maybe believed that it was easy to achieve what they set out to do. A vanity signing in Silva where the money could have been invested in players ready to play. A serious injury to Raul and things started to implode a little. The decision that Nuno had run his course and the decision to seemingly just appoint whoever Mendes recommended.
Year 6; Oh, we have to sell to buy. Utter rubbish, the TV money should have been invested to push us on this season but, as yet, no major signing.
The fans were given the impression that the owners were deadly serious but are they now having second thoughts when faced with the reality?

Why are you giving me a potted history of the last five years, I know what happened, I was there

I'm telling you they won't put external funding in (they've always made it clear that once we could be broadly self-sufficient, we'd have to be) and also that clinging on to something that someone said 4-5 years ago and imagining that's a non-negotiable blueprint forever, no matter how blatantly unrealistic it is, is a funny way to go about things. But that's our fans. You can have a go at the owners and their strategy if you like, but our fanbase doesn't help either. Never has done, never will do.