West Ham (A) - verdict

[Alan]

Some of you are more bothered about this than the game

People are more important than sport.

 

[Jinky]

Coady, Boly & Saiss all WAY below where they need to be. All three bullied by one striker - Antonio (who was excellent and I would take him here in a heartbeat but I guarantee people would scoff at him). In fact the form of all three centre backs is concerning and none of them really have any pressure on their starting place. Coady in particular is worrying me. He looked like he was running in treacle at times and his place in the side is a given every week.

Moutinho/Neves isn’t working. As I said in the match day thread, they don’t offer any cover for the defence - but they don’t get in the box when we are attacking. So what exactly are they doing? They’re certainly not managing the game from the middle. I’ve no idea why Donk lost his place after his performance against Sheffield Utd. That ones on Nuno.

Raul seems frustrated and Adama/Neto just get their head down and run - there’s no link up play between any of them, which is a huge backwards step on the last few seasons. That said, I do feel for the wide players who get to the byline multiple times in a match and then look up and there’s no one in the box. That’s been the case for months now - why hasn’t Nuno done something about it?

I don’t think it’s unfair to say we should expect to see a bit more from Fabio Silva either. Hoever on the other hand, looked promising.

I would like to see a new LWB signed in the next week of a similar level to Semedo (who blew hot and cold tonight but he’ll come good). Vinagre is no where near good enough. If Thomas Lemar is a genuine option then I would get that sorted ASAP as well. Without Podence tonight we looked like a team of individuals.

 

[Alan]

Awful tonight but have faith in Nuno to turn it around. Dendoncker has to come back in next week for Moutinho, thought Hoever looked good too.

We looked like a team who expected to turn up and win with none of the hard work. We're not there yet lads.

Wouldn't be sad to see Mou and Neves both dropped for the foreseeable after that.

 

[Tredman]

I thought Vitinia looked lively, tried to make things happen

Me too, but, at the risk of banging on about the same thing again and again, we need someone who can get forward and score from CM.

 

[Wolvensam]

Why exactly was Dendoncker dropped after Sheffield United? Thought he had a flawless game and was a big reason behind our victory. He made the system tick.

 

[Lycan]

Did anyone come out of that with credit? Thought Neto kept going but other than that it was really bad’. Traore has to play out wide if he plays. Not through the centre

I thought plenty of them came out with credit. Individually I think the only players who had absolute stinkers were Raúl, Coady, Saïss & Boly and even then I have sympathy towards the back 3 for how exposed they were all game.

The problem was tactical. It was an absolute shit show.

We're clearly trying to change things here and it's been an absolute disaster tonight. We've now got a week off, Fulham at home and then the international break. These next 3 weeks on the training ground will play a huge part in how our season unfolds from here.

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[slink]

Nuno to blame for me. Could see from minute one that Antonio was isolating our back 3 and our midfield was being out run but we didn't stop it at all and it actually got worse. Players too far apart in attack and defence and we got bossed physically and then mentally. Don't know whether the right word is glad but the fact that it ended up 4-0 rather than 1-0 means no cracks can be papered over and Nuno has to see what was wrong with that.

Still think we need a couple of players but don't think Nuno will do it as he doesn't like to not include players in the squad but we need a centre back that is better than Boly and Saiss (The letter had been better than Boly recently but was abysmal tonight and Boly still wasn't anywhere near his best either) We could probably cover what we need in central midfield and at lwb but Vinagre and any midfield 2 we have is not the answer if we are looking to play the style we did tonight so. Signings still needed then imo. Not the end of the world but that performance and just the style of it was very much a shock that needs to be sorted very quickly or questions will start to get asked. Whether that's right or wrong fans and every one else will start to ask whether going in this direction was the right way etc and that can just increase the pressure. Personally i think we'll be fine as Nuno has to see what was wrong tonight and will sort it.

 

[Jabbawolf]

What has happened to Boly? Looks sluggish, indecisive. Hope I have seen my last step over. Quite happy with Semedo’s debut. Traore needs to be a little less self-indulgent. Games seem to pass Moutinho by at the moment.


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[Alan]

Me too, but, at the risk of banging on about the same thing again and again, we need someone who can get forward and score from CM.

Hard to balance that against Neves or Moutinho who don't do the defensive work we'd need in a 3-4-3 if their partner starts bombing forward.

 

[Paul]

I would like to see a new LWB signed in the next week of a similar level to Semedo (who blew hot and cold tonight but he’ll come good). Vinagre is no where near good enough..

Do you just copy and paste this every week ?

 

[Aikiwolf]

I definitely agree on Boly to LCB and 3-5-2, but that means Donk as RCB - so a midfield 3 of Moutinho, Neves and Vintinha? Doesn’t work for me.

Maybe Hoever as RCB? Might be a bit early in his career for that though.

 

[Tredman]

Hard to balance that against Neves or Moutinho who don't do the defensive work we'd need in a 3-4-3 if their partner starts bombing forward.

They are both good defensively usually, today doesn’t mean neither can defend.

 

[Norman Deeley]

I watched WHU - Newcastle on the opening day and thought WHU looked relegation fodder. The only positive I can take from tonight is that there are a few days of the window still to go. But that was just awful. We desperately need someone with physical presence in the middle of the park. And as we've seen so many times, put a physical forward up against Coady and he's in trouble. Should get something against Flum but no chance vs Leeds on that performance

 

[Tredman]

Maybe Hoever as RCB? Might be a bit early in his career for that though.

I did think that, bit of a risk to chuck him into an underperforming back 3 though.

 

[Alan]

They are both good defensively usually, today doesn’t mean neither can defend.

I wouldn't back either of them in that kind of situation, personally. They aren't quick enough to cover that much ground.

 

[Templeton Peck]

I watched WHU - Newcastle on the opening day and thought WHU looked relegation fodder. The only positive I can take from tonight is that there are a few days of the window still to go. But that was just awful. We desperately need someone with physical presence in the middle of the park. And as we've seen so many times, put a physical forward up against Coady and he's in trouble. Should get something against Flum but no chance vs Leeds on that performance

I've got them to go down with Fulham and WBA.

 

[White Wolf]

Only had the pleasure of watching the first half but sounds like the second was even worse.

Even just going on the first 45 we were terrible as a defensive unit. All of the back three were bad. Was mentioned prior to this game but we have seen Boly have more bad games in his handful of appearances at RCB than we have in countless at LCB, time to move him back over I think.

 

[YoungWolf]

Hard to know where to start! Lots to reflect on.

A concern how much space they had when breaking against us. Left Coady 1v1 with Antonio so many times. Build up was only any good when we got to Neto between the lines but that was few and far between.

Interested to see where we look to strengthen. Agree with Sam in transfer thread saying solutions aren’t only in transfer market. Didn’t think Vinagre was the worst in the team by a long stretch but we were too open down his side early in the game and he doesn’t give us enough going forward, seems like he’s doing the bare minimum to get by.

It’s a concern because it was such an awful performance and result but you have to imagine we will come back next weekend better than this! Long term results are all that matter to me. This is still a good team and we shouldn’t forget that.

 

[The Bion]

Neto kept going even though very little came off for him

Rui didn't have a chance with the goals and it could've been worse without him

Vitinha looked lively

That's about it

If we play Traore out wide it means 2 in the middle. 2 straight games we've played Neves and Moutinho and they've been overrun. It's something that has to be looked at.

It took a while to get Doc and Adama synced up so it's not a surprise that it will likely take the same with Semedo

Vinagre was virtually anonymous, back 3 were dreadful.

Would hope there'll be serious improvement against Fulham.

 

[AndyWolves]

Going forward reminded me of how isolated Jota and Costa used to look when we got promoted and we became easy to snuff out.

Midfield was far too lightweight and non-existant.

Defence was bullied by Antonio (he took us apart when he played for forest one time if I remember rightly).

Our wide forwards, I think, need to come inside and deeper in games like that so they can get involved more and influence the game more