Palace 2-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Throbber3]

I can live with the occasional drop, if he costs us while goal walkabout I'll be less tolerant. He hasn't to date, but there's been enough close misses to know it'll happen at some point

Spot on. Lets hope it happens when we are 3-0 up somewhere! I would have liked Kenny to have commented as he has a good eye for goalkeepers generally, but he has taken a back seat recently , which is a shame.

 

[sycophantia]

One thing I like about Sa is his consistency in coming for the ball. The defence know that and can account for it. It's why Saiss and Coady hit the line on the goal. Obviously you've then got to get out again, but that's a bad job by them. It's one of the reasons we are more solid defending set pieces. There's nothing wrong with being a line keeper like Patricio is more or less, but as a defence it's a different skill set to protect that which we too often didn't have the personnel and/or coaching to do.

He'll be very important next match because West Ham' s set piece delivery is top notch and as you saw yesterday on the first and third goals, legally blocking off the keeper is part of their strategy.

I can live with the occasional drop, if he costs us while going walkabout I'll be less tolerant. He hasn't to date, but there's been enough close misses to know it'll happen at some point

I agree with 99.9% of this but he definitely went walkabout for Palaces first, yes others didn't cover themselves in glory but he just doesn't need to come that far in that instance imo

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't think you can just say "he's eccentric". I mean to use the example of Grobbelaar (who last played top flight football well over 25 years ago), he was fine while Liverpool were the best team in the league by miles every year. Once they weren't, he wasn't fine, because you can't just give away goals through being an idiot, so they got rid of him. You could see on Saturday that if we go 1-0 down there, we're very likely to lose because we're offering nothing going forward. So it's unsustainable to have that risk as your final line of defence.

He isn't rubbish, he isn't all bad, as Tony says elements of his game enable us to play a bit more like the way (I assume) Lage wants us to play, but we can't just write it all off as "oh, what is he like" - he fucks up more than most of the first choice keepers we've had over the last 30 years. So much of it is avoidable too.

Rui being in what seems to be a prolonged decline is neither here nor there really, fine if we spotted that and decided to cut him loose while he still had a high reputation, in fact that's good business. But I strongly suspect we could have done better with the replacement.

 

[Tony Towner]

Without opening an old can worms, it's the same as the Bruno debate. You'll never know if you have the best candidate if you don't test the market.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Sa
Ruddy
Hoever
Semedo
Saiss
Marçal
Dendoncker
Adama
Podence
Silva

10 senior players there where I wouldn't care if they left in the next 12-18 months. A couple of others on the edge as well. That's not a great state of affairs when we don't have a big squad to start with.

I'm reticent to criticise the manager too much when we know this isn't the squad he wants. He can carry the can for shite hoofball though, that's on him, we don't need to play like that.

 

[Throbber3]

Sa
Ruddy
Hoever
Semedo
Saiss
Marçal
Dendoncker
Adama
Podence
Silva

10 senior players there where I wouldn't care if they left in the next 12-18 months. A couple of others on the edge as well. That's not a great state of affairs when we don't have a big squad to start with.

I'm reticent to criticise the manager too much when we know this isn't the squad he wants. He can carry the can for shite hoofball though, that's on him, we don't need to play like that.

I don't know what you really expect to be replacing that lot with as a mid table team with less than 5 years premier league experience located in a not to salubrious part of Britain.- £135m worth of players there with what we paid for them.

I will be amazed if Fosun dispose of their assets at such a loss ( and it would be in many cases) Saiss Dendonker Hoever Podence are all decent squad players for where we are now and where we are trying to go within a budget. Semedo and Silva are our two highest signings so they are unlikely to be going anywhere soon at a loss. Traore and Podence are both inconsistent but again have a place for where we are now. We just wont be attracting big name players on the wages we are wanting to pay. That will be happening up the toon. The squad would look a lot better with a new centre half and a new attacking midfield. If you really want to go to town we could get another couple of players but its unrealistic to believe that lot will all go in your time frame.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Replacing them is another question, I'm just saying I don't particularly like any of them at this point.

I'd be happy with a non-fuckwit keeper, some kind of stock right back (Semedo never looks like cutting out his weird moments, and I don't have a clue what Hoever is supposed to be) and a proper central midfielder rather than the ghost of 2019 Dendoncker.

Silva looks increasingly like a waste of time and for all the use they are, we can replace Adama and Podence with one player. One that scores goals, maybe.

 

[Throbber3]

Replacing them is another question, I'm just saying I don't particularly like any of them at this point.

I'd be happy with a non-fuckwit keeper, some kind of stock right back (Semedo never looks like cutting out his weird moments, and I don't have a clue what Hoever is supposed to be) and a proper central midfielder rather than the ghost of 2019 Dendoncker.

Silva looks increasingly like a waste of time and for all the use they are, we can replace Adama and Podence with one player. One that scores goals, maybe.

Who? Its three or four windows since we did anything of real note. Uncle Jorge is always going to be the first point of call so that means Guedes or similar for Adama/ Podence and that has been universally derided on here. Sa isnt a fuckwit keeper but we are just going to have to disagree there. Besides, Fosun wont be paying North of 10m and I dont see any keeper in that sort of bracket as much of an upgrade. We just need to rein Sa in a bit. Sanches and Botman would be a decent shopping trip in January paired with a return for Neto and Jonny . Silva needs to go on loan so I would not mind Guedes on loan coming in as a replacement. That would be an upgrade on young Fabio but so would anyone with a bit of pace and the ability to cause a bit of havoc up front.

 

[Carsy]

One thing I like about Sa is his consistency in coming for the ball. The defence know that and can account for it. It's why Saiss and Coady hit the line on the goal. Obviously you've then got to get out again, but that's a bad job by them. It's one of the reasons we are more solid defending set pieces. There's nothing wrong with being a line keeper like Patricio is more or less, but as a defence it's a different skill set to protect that which we too often didn't have the personnel and/or coaching to do.

He'll be very important next match because West Ham' s set piece delivery is top notch and as you saw yesterday on the first and third goals, legally blocking off the keeper is part of their strategy.

I can live with the occasional drop, if he costs us while going walkabout I'll be less tolerant. He hasn't to date, but there's been enough close misses to know it'll happen at some point

It’s not a coincidence we look more solid defending corners when we have a keeper who commands his area, also through balls he’s very alert to

Was literally thinking that abs then he had a rush of blood for the goal. But point still stands

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He is a fuckwit, he does fuckwit things all the time.

We aren't signing Guedes, if we were going to we would have done by now.

I bet fewer than five people on here have seen Botman play more than three times, and I'm not one of them.

 

[sycophantia]

Tbh the only players I'm really bothered about keeping are Raul and Neves (also Jonny and Neto if they can come back well from their injuries), Kilman has been mostly decent but everyone else has been hot and cold...mostly cold. I would say overall our back 3 haven't been bad given the personnel we have.
Obviously we can't change all of those players overnight, even if we do replace some of them, a team in our position are going to be tinkering and hoping we can get a few gems.
It will be interesting to see if we get any coming in January and how Bruno does with them.

 

[Carsy]

He is a fuckwit, he does fuckwit things all the time.

We aren't signing Guedes, if we were going to we would have done by now.

I bet fewer than five people on here have seen Botman play more than three times, and I'm not one of them.

I don’t think semedo is as bad as you make out? I’m relatively happy with him.

Can’t say I’ve seen botman play. Tbf that can be said about the majority of our signings.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm no Semedo hater, he's definitely an improvement on what we had, as he was and is genuinely shit.

However if we got £20m back for him and spent £10m on a bog standard right back we'd never know the difference.

It's not "I actively want all these players out now". I just don't care about any of them.

 

[Throbber3]

It's not "I actively want all these players out now". I just don't care about any of them.

Yes I get that. I just don't see who you replace them with as an upgrade that fits with both the profile and budget of Fosun.
1. No more than 25m
2. Prospect for the future who is ready now.

Given the relative success or lack of it for Vitinha and Trincao I think that the players Fosun are willing to spend on are no better than the ones we have and we are pretty much stuck until we land another Neves or Neto or get a Moutinho replacement who is only early 30s. The reality is thats where we are.

 

[sycophantia]

The 'Botman would immediately make us better' vibe from a while ago made me ask the question a couple of weeks ago, why do people think he would? didn't really get a definitive answer.
None Wolves fans looking at us probably would think the 3 CBs we've used this season have been pretty good, in that for a middling team in the toughest league in the world we haven't done at all badly in the goals against column.

 

[Carsy]

I'm no Semedo hater, he's definitely an improvement on what we had, as he was and is genuinely shit.

However if we got £20m back for him and spent £10m on a bog standard right back we'd never know the difference.

It's not "I actively want all these players out now". I just don't care about any of them.

Gotcha.

I remember him signing and everyone was like ‘wow what a statement signing’ etc etc - shame it really hasn’t panned out like that!

 

[Throbber3]

The 'Botman would immediately make us better' vibe from a while ago made me ask the question a couple of weeks ago, why do people think he would? didn't really get a definitive answer.
None Wolves fans looking at us probably would think the 3 CBs we've used this season have been pretty good, in that for a middling team in the toughest league in the world we haven't done at all badly in the goals against column.

Because even with a three you then get to use Saiss in midfield to close out games. Botman Coady Kilman in a three or you could go Semedo Kilman/ Boly, Botman Jonny/ Marcal for a back four and still have Neves Donk, Moutinho Saiss in midfield plus Sanches. The issue is what to do with Coady who is by no means the worst defender in the world.

Completely hypothetically

Sa

Kilman Coady Botman

Semedo Neves Sanches Jonny

Neto Jimenez Hwang

RAN
Traore
Trincao
Podence
Saiss
Boly
Dendonker
Ruddy
Marcal
Moutinho

That is as good as we can hope for at the moment I think. Its also a decent looking side with options off the bench

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Semedo has been a lot more solid this season than last season.

 

[Jinky]

Sa
Ruddy
Hoever
Semedo
Saiss
Marçal
Dendoncker
Adama
Podence
Silva

10 senior players there where I wouldn't care if they left in the next 12-18 months. A couple of others on the edge as well. That's not a great state of affairs when we don't have a big squad to start with.

I'm reticent to criticise the manager too much when we know this isn't the squad he wants. He can carry the can for shite hoofball though, that's on him, we don't need to play like that.

That's harsh on Romain, who is a more than capable squad player at this level and has never let us down. The rest I'm inclined to agree, apart from Sa, who you've got some weird dislike of - as someone above said, we just need to reign him in a little, but he has the makings of a very good goalkeeper. Podence can go from looking like the answer to all our problems to completely ineffectual within the blink of an eye. I do wonder if that's because we're asking the players in those positions to do too much (same with Adama etc). The old "give the ball to the winger and see if they can magic up something special" tactic that we seem to have persisted with for far too long.

Ultimately, I'd rather we were bringing quality players in, rather than losing any more.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Semedo has been a lot more solid this season than last season.

It's about the same for me. I mean he gave away a penalty and then was at least partially at fault for us going 1-0 down in our last two away games. He offers as good as nothing going forward, he can't cross for shit and doesn't score.

He's alright, he's just worth nothing like what we paid.