Coronavirus

[Paul]

"Speaking to local media, Dr Anders Tegnell, the architect of Sweden's controversial strategy, claimed that the population of Stockholm - the epicentre of the country's outbreak - could achieve 'herd immunity' as early as next month.

Dr Tegnell said: 'According to our modellers [at the Public Health Agency of Sweden], we are starting to see so many immune people in the population in Stockholm that it is starting to have an effect on the spread of the infection."

So they achieved it without trying to ?? I haven't got an obsession with it I was just answering a question you posed earlier (4;26 pm)!

 

[Rui_CostCo]

putting words into the mouth of Anders Tegnell, the architect of Sweden's controversial strategy, the Daily Mail claimed that the population of Stockholm - the epicentre of the country's outbreak - could achieve 'herd immunity' as early as next month.

Dr Tegnell said: 'According to our modellers [at the Public Health Agency of Sweden], we are starting to see so many immune people in the population in Stockholm that it is starting to have an effect on the spread of the infection."

So they achieved it without trying to ?? I haven't got an obsession with it I was just answering a question you posed earlier (4;26 pm)!

You should stop reading the Daily Mail, it'll rot your brain

Swedish Health Minister Lena Hallengren recently told The Associated Press: “We have never had a strategy for herd immunity.”

 

[Paul]

The Telegraph then

"Sweden's infectious diseases chief has said parts of the country could achieve "herd immunity" as early as next month as debate rages over the rising death toll.

The country's laissez faire experiment with coronavirus restrictions has made it a European outlier - drawing intrigue from around the globe."

The Guardian

Criticism is mounting in Sweden of the government’s approach to Covid-19, with academics warning that its strategy of building broad immunity while protecting at-risk groups – similar to that initially adopted by the UK – amounted to “Russian roulette” and could end in disaster.

Aljazeera

While UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his advisers sparked an uproar when they bluntly proposed this approach - and later, at least formally, backtracked - this is actually something approved by politicians and public health experts in Sweden,

Wall Street Journal

Inside Sweden’s Radically Different Approach to the Coronavirus
No lockdown, no quarantines, just voluntary advice and a big dose of hope

 

[Rui_CostCo]

The Telegraph then

"Sweden's infectious diseases chief has said parts of the country could achieve "herd immunity" as early as next month as debate rages over the rising death toll.

The country's laissez faire experiment with coronavirus restrictions has made it a European outlier - drawing intrigue from around the globe."

The Guardian

Criticism is mounting in Sweden of the government’s approach to Covid-19, with academics warning that its strategy of building broad immunity while protecting at-risk groups – similar to that initially adopted by the UK – amounted to “Russian roulette” and could end in disaster.

Aljazeera

While UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his advisers sparked an uproar when they bluntly proposed this approach - and later, at least formally, backtracked - this is actually something approved by politicians and public health experts in Sweden,

Wall Street Journal

Inside Sweden’s Radically Different Approach to the Coronavirus
No lockdown, no quarantines, just voluntary advice and a big dose of hope

Hi Paul, a couple of things happened at the end of a long, stressful day, and I snapped. I was out of order, I shouldn't have done it, nor aimed it at you . Please accept my heartfelt apology. Peace x

 

[Paul]

Hi Paul, a couple of things happened at the end of a long, stressful day, and I snapped. I was out of order, I shouldn't have done it, nor aimed it at you . Please accept my heartfelt apology. Peace x

Not a problem at all matey, big fan of your work.

Paul
x

 

[b3h]

Antibody testing

Coming soon – we have had confirmation from the Black Country Pathology service lead that we will be ready to undertake antibody testing as soon as it is available and we will keep you informed of how we can access it when it is available.




Hospital I work at

Id be wary of this. Someone who works from me is currently in Germany with her parents, and she fell ill with non covid symptoms. In Germany its standard to do covid testing and antibody testing, but the latter takes two weeks for the results to come through and will only detect if you had it more than four weeks before the test was done.

So even though it came back negative that only means that as of 6 weeks ago she hadnt had it.

Can Joe public buy these?

According to the WHO there is no evidence that they actually work. They wasted £20M buying kits from China.

Well, on the topic of tests, this is what the main respiratory consultant here yesterday afternoon said to us (to our face, not via 47 other people):


I personally rate the tests at about 70% accurate. I've had a patient I am confident died of COVID take 4 COVID tests all negative

He also asked my manager who deals with deaths (whereas we deal with live discharges) - Can you ignore the negative tests and code it as COVID since that is what I'm putting on the death certificate

 

[AndyWolves]

Well, on the topic of tests, this is what the main respiratory consultant here yesterday afternoon said to us (to our face, not via 47 other people):


I personally rate the tests at about 70% accurate. I've had a patient I am confident died of COVID take 4 COVID tests all negative

He also asked my manager who deals with deaths (whereas we deal with live discharges) - Can you ignore the negative tests and code it as COVID since that is what I'm putting on the death certificate

It seems like there is more and more indicators that there are way more people with this virus than we think.

What you've said here b3h, the prevalence of asymptomatic people, the people who've been able to brush it off with milder symptoms.

I still don't understand, and probably never will, why some people are asymptomatic (completely in some cases) and other people are really suffering with it.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

FT claim 41k have died.

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

 

[b3h]

It seems like there is more and more indicators that there are way more people with this virus than we think.

What you've said here b3h, the prevalence of asymptomatic people, the people who've been able to brush it off with milder symptoms.

I still don't understand, and probably never will, why some people are asymptomatic (completely in some cases) and other people are really suffering with it.

Effectively told my manager to go against WHO rules and code it as:

Covid positive
Viral Pneumonia
Co-morbs

Whereas it should be:

Pneumonia (we auto go to viral now for any covid positive patients)
Co-morbs
Code for COVID ruled out

Does make me wonder how many people "have it" too

 

[arklowolf]

It seems like there is more and more indicators that there are way more people with this virus than we think.

What you've said here b3h, the prevalence of asymptomatic people, the people who've been able to brush it off with milder symptoms.

I still don't understand, and probably never will, why some people are asymptomatic (completely in some cases) and other people are really suffering with it.

But can asymptomatic mean that someone had it a few months back, got over it but now still tests positive for it? Maybe even forgot they had 'something' or forgot how bad they were at the time.

 

[arklowolf]

Well, on the topic of tests, this is what the main respiratory consultant here yesterday afternoon said to us (to our face, not via 47 other people):


I personally rate the tests at about 70% accurate. I've had a patient I am confident died of COVID take 4 COVID tests all negative

He also asked my manager who deals with deaths (whereas we deal with live discharges) - Can you ignore the negative tests and code it as COVID since that is what I'm putting on the death certificate

Don't like the sound of that tbh.

 

[Kenny]

Seems the goalposts are about to be moved on the 100,000 tests per day by the end of April promise...it nows seems the target is to have the capacity to do 100,000 tests per day.

 

[Johnny75]

Seems the goalposts are about to be moved on the 100,000 tests per day by the end of April promise...it nows seems the target is to have the capacity to do 100,000 tests per day.

Heard that this morning, Hancock should just put his hands up and say he got it wrong.

 

[Kenny]

Heard that this morning, Hancock should just put his hands up and say he got it wrong.

This is what annoys me about politics right now, it is say what you want people to hear rather than the truth. Then when it goes tits up they just lie, deflect and in some cases deny.

Just like the PPE stuff from Turkey. On Saturday it was 100% on its way...when it wasn't and was days away from heading over here and we had to collect it.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't know why the press picked up on the PPE stuff from Turkey. It showed two things, how piss poor our current media is and how easily the government can fuck up one thing well.

The biggest failing on PPE is the lack of coherent strategy to get PPE through a central point and distributed to the people that need it (not just the NHS). That's been a massive failing particularly when there is a huge supply chain in the UK currently frustrated that the systems in the NHS and central government have failed so badly and there is no back up.

I think there is something distinctly underhand going on buying up product from Turkey and Myanmar. There's a rich persons greasy paws over all of this.

 

[Sniffer]

I don't know why the press picked up on the PPE stuff from Turkey. It showed two things, how piss poor our current media is and how easily the government can fuck up one thing well.

The biggest failing on PPE is the lack of coherent strategy to get PPE through a central point and distributed to the people that need it (not just the NHS). That's been a massive failing particularly when there is a huge supply chain in the UK currently frustrated that the systems in the NHS and central government have failed so badly and there is no back up.

I think there is something distinctly underhand going on buying up product from Turkey and Myanmar. There's a rich persons greasy paws over all of this.

The press picked up on the Turkey delivery because the Government in its Press Conference on Saturday stated that 400,0000 gowns that the country was short of would be arriving the following day. If it doesn't arrive then they are going to get pulled up on it.

I agree with your other sentiments.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Yeah i think this is one instance where the press have been fair?

 

[SSB]

I watched a TV report that complained that the UK was wrong to be shipping out PPE to other countries, then immediately after complained that the PPE from Turkey was late without questioning how/why Turkey have PEE they can give to us.

 

[Johnny75]

Yeah i think this is one instance where the press have been fair?

Nope, focusing on one thing is piss poor.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I'm not sure that have specifically focused on the Turkey flight bar pretty much factually reporting that it hadn't turned up. They are absolutely right to be focusing on the lack of PPE at the front line though. There are staff there who by rights should actually be refusing to treat patients as it isn't safe to do so, but are carrying on out of a sense of duty and their wish to help. And they are being dangerously exposed in great numbers.