wolves 2 Chelsea 5 verdict

[Norman Deeley]

Blimey, finally had time to watch the game. The defending for their 3rd and 4th goals and when Mount hits the side netting is just bloody awful. We could easily have conceded 10 or 12 in the last two games, never mind eight

 

[PuntsWolf]

I'm not buying this 'lack of ambition in the transfer window' thing, yes we all know we needed reinforcements but you can't force players to sign and you can't just chuck money about due to FFP, no doubt we were trying to sign players but I don't think top end players see us the same way us supporters do, we just aren't that attractive......yet

Well that’s poor recruitment strategy. FFP is an awful excuse, transfer fees don’t really come into it unless your spending stupid money and the wages issue was abolished.

If we were aiming too high then we should have had a backup option. Instead we haven’t and we are in a position where we still can’t trust anyone outside the first 11 to come in a do a job.

 

[sycophantia]

Well that’s poor recruitment strategy. FFP is an awful excuse, transfer fees don’t really come into it unless your spending stupid money and the wages issue was abolished.

If we were aiming too high then we should have had a backup option. Instead we haven’t and we are in a position where we still can’t trust anyone outside the first 11 to come in a do a job.

Poor strategy and lack of ambition are two completely different things

 

[prawnking]

Yes there are plenty of players we could have bought, but would we want
to?

I can't really see what your argument is here?

I haven't written Vallejo off, but you just seemed to be saying that our only purchase options were top end players out of our league. Currently he doesn't even look like a sideways step; more Miranda than Boly?

 

[PuntsWolf]

Poor strategy and lack of ambition are two completely different things

Not really, they are linked. I can go all David Gold and say we are going to break the bank and sign a world class player and then the deal falls through. Makes you look like you are ambitious but you never had a strategy to get the deal done. It was never going to happen.

If and it’s a big IF we tried to sign loads of big names but couldn’t get the deal done then over ambition is poor strategy.

 

[sycophantia]

I can't really see what your argument is here?

I haven't written Vallejo off, but you just seemed to be saying that our only purchase options were top end players out of our league. Currently he doesn't even look like a sideways step; more Miranda than Boly?

No they were not our only options but it appears to me that Nunos preferred purchases were that level, that looks like a bad idea atm

 

[sycophantia]

Not really, they are linked. I can go all David Gold and say we are going to break the bank and sign a world class player and then the deal falls through. Makes you look like you are ambitious but you never had a strategy to get the deal done. It was never going to happen.

If and it’s a big IF we tried to sign loads of big names but couldn’t get the deal done then over ambition is poor strategy.

Well yes over ambition is poor strategy but some people seem to be saying we had no ambition and were complacent, I don't believe that but yes our strategy does seem to have been poor. Having said all that it is still early in the season and I'm hopful we can sort it out starting with Palace

 

[PuntsWolf]

Well yes over ambition is poor strategy but some people seem to be saying we had no ambition and were complacent, I don't believe that but yes our strategy does seem to have been poor.

There’s no evidence either way for why it’s happened. The only thing that matters is that it has. It’s a combination on poor strategy, complacency and under ambition financially.

 

[Premier Quality]

We’re poor in multiple areas - the strikers are isolated, generally with no midfielder within 30 yards of them, we just expect them to bring down a high punt and dance round people to score.

The midfield don’t seem able to either work the ball forward between them, or stop the opponents breaking through.

The defence look porous and slow with the exception of Willy.

In my view the whole system needs tweaking - either we go back to 5-2-3, or we push the midfield further forwards.

Incidentally, whilst I agree Vallejo was poor yesterday, I’d give him the next five games. I assume Nuno thinks passing ability is the way to beat the high press teams have been hitting us with, and it’s harsh to judge him on one game when the majority of his team mates were shite - if Nuno thinks he’s the answer then he needs a run of games.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Incidentally, whilst I agree Vallejo was poor yesterday, I’d give him the next five games. I assume Nuno thinks passing ability is the way to beat the high press teams have been hitting us with, and it’s harsh to judge him on one game when the majority of his team mates were shite - if Nuno thinks he’s the answer then he needs a run of games.

I haven’t seen anything from him to suggest he’s great on the deck. Aimless hoofs and awful 5 yard passes.

He’s a cross between Stears and Hause with the ball. Hause was very deliberate on what he was doing when passing to the point of looking awkward and Stears thought he was a number 10 but fucked it up.

He has both those qualities.

 

[prawnking]

Focussing on Vallejo is maybe a red herring; it IS too early to be definitive about him, for me yesterday calls Nuno's judgement into question selection-wise, not for the first time this season either.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Bad first half, better second. Jesus done by another right sided player cutting the ball back onto his right from his left.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

Focussing on Vallejo is maybe a red herring; it IS too early to be definitive about him, for me yesterday calls Nuno's judgement into question selection-wise, not for the first time this season either.

This for me.

Making an unforced change to a back three when you’re already making an enforced change is clearly not the wisest of strategies. And we were 100% saying that amongst friends before the game.

 

[Papper]

If there is a desire to cement the club as top six there has to be a degree of objectivity when it comes to certain players ie Coady and Doherty. There can be endless debates on this, that and the other which will change game by game, but for me the requirement was upgrade and that is still very much the case. There has been no upgrade - Vallejo is a rookie.

The duo of Moutinho and Neves are pivotal to our success and if one or either of them are nullified it affects the whole pattern of play. We lack fluidity in terms of defending then turning to attack in numbers and vice versa which is exactly the opposite of last season. Much has been said of the team being sussed out and I tend to disagree because the 3-5-2 can morph into so many shapes and sizes. It is flexible and encapsulates plan A, B, C and whatever else. Certain players are targeted and this lessens the sum of the parts ie Jota remains non-effective even allowing for an over elaboration in the final third and too much falling over.

I'm not convinced by MGW and I see Traore as a wing back as expecting far too much. Thoughts of returning to a 4-4-2 with Doherty as RB fill me with horror. Much rather go Otto and Vinagre as the wide players. Nuno's explanation of why Kilman was preferred to Bennett seems a fair call. Overall - still not unduly concerned but we need those two midfielders to be subject to mass analysis in respect of how other teams play us.

 

[prawnking]

Nuno's explanation of why Kilman was preferred to Bennett seems a fair call.

Have to disagree here; you (reasonably) call Vallejo a rookie...well I don't know what that makes Kilman then!

Bennett is no-frills but has been a solid and reliable part of a defence and team that's had two great seasons in a row. We still would love an upgrade as we recognise his ceiling, but there's no fear of him playing multiple PL games for us; he's earned our trust and can be relied upon. Kilman is nowhere near that currently, he's not even in the MGW/Vinagre camp of (IMO) 'talented but question marks over playing for a long stretch'

 

[Papper]

Have to disagree here; you (reasonably) call Vallejo a rookie...well I don't know what that makes Kilman then!

Bennett is no-frills but has been a solid and reliable part of a defence and team that's had two great seasons in a row. We still would love an upgrade as we recognise his ceiling, but there's no fear of him playing multiple PL games for us; he's earned our trust and can be relied upon. Kilman is nowhere near that currently, he's not even in the MGW/Vinagre camp of (IMO) 'talented but question marks over playing for a long stretch'

Something about a pecking order on the right and a pecking order on the left . I think Saiss did very well and he is second in the pecking order to Boly.

 

[Monstrum]

Bennett is a decent and reliable enough player, but hes not top half material. He cant pass more than 5 meters, hes good but not great in the air, good tackler when staying up but penalty prone when sliding. Fairly slow and not agile at all. We really should have upgraded him, as allowed him to be a roation/backup option but we didnt. We added an unproven youngster who doesnt speak english
Moutinho is 33. We should have added a playmaker/creative/attacking midfielder to rest and rotate him this season, but we didnt.
We should have added another defensive minded wingback since we only had jonny and doc as seniors, for rotation and backup but we didnt. Instead we chose to continue to develop vinagre (fair enough) and play traore in that position (I think its worked well hes been one of our best players). The problem is vinagre and traore are purely offensive and do not work together vs decent teams. So out of 4 wingbacks, only one is an actual defender.
Cutrone looks good and is the one transfer and need we did well on, another striker was desperately needed. The problem is jota is playing really poorly and raul is isolated

 

[Trips]

Bennett is a decent and reliable enough player, but hes not top half material. He cant pass more than 5 meters, hes good but not great in the air, good tackler when staying up but penalty prone when sliding. Fairly slow and not agile at all. We really should have upgraded him, as allowed him to be a roation/backup option but we didnt. We added an unproven youngster who doesnt speak english
Moutinho is 33. We should have added a playmaker/creative/attacking midfielder to rest and rotate him this season, but we didnt.
We should have added another defensive minded wingback since we only had jonny and doc as seniors, for rotation and backup but we didnt. Instead we chose to continue to develop vinagre (fair enough) and play traore in that position (I think its worked well hes been one of our best players). The problem is vinagre and traore are purely offensive and do not work together vs decent teams. So out of 4 wingbacks, only one is an actual defender.
Cutrone looks good and is the one transfer and need we did well on, another striker was desperately needed. The problem is jota is playing really poorly and raul is isolated

We finished 7th last season, comfortably in the top half, and Bennett played 34 of the 38 games, yet isn't top half material? OK.

Moutinho, Neves, Dendoncker, Saiss, MGW are the midfield options for us, perhaps Nuno was happy with that.

We signed Cutrone, and added Neto who looks a decent option, so we did add the other forward you wanted.

 

[prawnking]

He's right that we should have upgraded Bennett though.

He's also right about resting Moutinho; Dendoncker and Saiss aren't playmakers/creative/attacking (Dendoncker can be box to box at a push) so we're left with MGW who I wouldn't feel comfortable deputising in such a vital role for a long period of time in the PL.

Neto looks up for it, but has still not played enough for anyone to make a definitive case for him being a player who will push the likes of Jota in the PL.

 

[Trips]

I didn't say we shouldn't have upgraded Bennett, I said saying he's not top-half material is wrong. The thing with Moutinho is we have 5 options in centre midfield, and Nuno has stated he wants a small squad, there isn't room for many more in there. We aren't in a position as a club to have 4 top forwards competing for 2 spaces. Players will know Raul and Jota are first choice, and players of that quality won't be knocking down our door to be a sub