The we’ve lost again verdict thread. Liverpool 2-1 Wolves

[YoungWolf]

It’s just pure apathy though isn’t it? No one has the energy for it.

 

[Lycan]

It’s just pure apathy though isn’t it? No one has the energy for it.

Its not apathy though, they got a rousing reception at the end today. It was so bizarre.

I don't understand why it isn't fury?

 

[YoungWolf]

they’ve all just lost the plot then. I guess there was a bit of that after Arsenal too.

West Ham at home will be interesting.

 

[Tredman]

On the match day thread the Arsenal and Villa games were being held up as examples as what we should do. We lost ffs.

 

[Tony Towner]

But that doesn’t undermine my point, it reinforces it.

We spent years managing the consequences of a bad decision rather than taking the hit early and resetting. Whether that was loans, sunk-cost PSR logic or squad desperation, the underlying behaviour was the same: hesitation, value-protection, and an unwillingness to admit mistakes quickly.

That’s a Fosun pattern, not something unique to Guedes.

And it isn’t just Guedes.

Hwang is another example (that you keep ignoring Dan). We had a clear opportunity to sell him for decent money and didn’t take it, it's gair to say that's because of his South Korea popularity isn't it.

We extended contracts for VP and GON that many people questioned at the time (that you also ignore). Again and again, the club prioritises asset management and perceived value over decisive football decisions.

On Jackson, calling someone a fool doesn’t make the argument stronger TT. Last summer he was Player Recruitment Director. That role exists to shape recruitment. Saying he had some involvement or responsibility is not the same thing as claiming he overruled Pereira or Teti.

If he had no involvement at all, then that reinforces my point further, what the fuck was he doing? Why didnt we get rid? Again a lack of decisiveness.

Football recruitment isn’t binary. It isn’t “manager alone” versus “exec mastermind”. It’s layered, and responsibility is shared.

So what are you both even arguing here?

That Nathan Shi, whose football background is basically Club Med and corporate oversight, and Matt Jackson, whose senior experience includes Grasshoppers and involvement (large or small) in our worst window ever, are suddenly going to do what’s right this summer?

Because that’s the leap of faith I’m not making.

I'm not sure what your point is? We are run badly, I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. You don't have faith in that changing, neither does anyone else. Jackson had a title, he played no more part in our Summer activity than Thelwell did as Sporting Director when we signed Jota, Neves, Boly etc. They were irrelevant titles under the Shi empire whilst the business was done by others

I don’t think it would be too difficult with our financial resources to build a top 6 Championship squad in the Summer. I don't think we will and are more likely to have a bottom 6 one. As does pretty much everyone else, including you.

 

[Alan]

Its not apathy though, they got a rousing reception at the end today. It was so bizarre.

I don't understand why it isn't fury?

Everyone there was actually me

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'm not sure what your point is? We are run badly, I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. You don't have faith in that changing, neither does anyone else. Jackson had a title, he played no more part in our Summer activity than Thelwell did as Sporting Director when we signed Jota, Neves, Boly etc. They were irrelevant titles under the Shi empire whilst the business was done by others

I don’t think it would be too difficult with our financial resources to build a top 6 Championship squad in the Summer. I don't think we will and are more likely to have a bottom 6 one. As does pretty much everyone else, including you.

DW said the squad needs gutting. I agreed.

Where we differ is that I don’t trust the board to do it properly, neither do you.

DW cited Cutrone and Guedes as evidence that Fosun have been ruthless in the past. I agreed on Cutrone. I don’t on Guedes, for the reasons already laid out, and that’s where the side-discussion came from.

But that’s secondary.

The core point has always been this:
seeing the problem is not the same as trusting this ownership and leadership group to fix it.

Which is where Jackson and Nathan Shi come into it, as well as Hwang, VP, GON, (i could add Lage too), and a structure that prioritises asset management over football resets, I don’t share the confidence that “it’s obvious they’ll gut the squad” means it will actually happen or that they will not push a manager to use any of the dross we can't sell/loan.

 

[big mean bunny]

Its not apathy though, they got a rousing reception at the end today. It was so bizarre.

I don't understand why it isn't fury?

I presume with the away fans there is the feeling you've but the effort and cost in and gone away so don't want to make that even worse an experience by ensuring you don't enjoy it by being negative?

Thats my guess, not my feelings. I am closer to YW, I get I don't go but I barely care. Not being televised really helped but I made almost zero effort to check the score today, looked at HT roughly on my phone and then didnt check again.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I think Mane deserved applause.

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[Keef]

The Edwards out posts are starting on twitter

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2004980776186908895

Comments are interesting.

 

[jd1981]

The nonsense that it somehow the fans at home fault for the atmosphere is highly annoying especially considering we were terrible prior to any protests.
Our fans have been too patient for too long long imo
A team that’s lost a game should never be applauded off the field.
Again it’s the loser mentality that’s seeping into every fibre of the club and that having a good effort is good enough.

 

[big mean bunny]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2004980776186908895

Comments are interesting.

I can't be bothered responding them as I was going to as I dislike Twitter now, but these would be my points.


1) Which manager in the Prem would you currently not swap Edwards for if you were given the choice? And if you want you can extend that to when we hired him initially and have the choice then, between him or any of the present.

My own initial reaction would be Parker and that is it, but the more I think about it if I was given the choice of Parker and Edwards next season, I would take Parker given his record in the league below.

2) From about this time last season, huge amounts of the talk was on how the gap between the promoted sides and the teams in the Prem was just too significant. That the promoted teams basically stood no chance compared to the financial powers and might of the Prem.

We have utterly eradicated that argument and we don't even have a reason for why our team is so poor other than terrible recruitment and management. And for me Edwards fits into that. He wasn't a Premier team appointment. There was no ambition or plans to spend in January to try and restore anything to go along with his appointment, and the news since has been there will be signings if we get the outings right. Which we probably all know what that is code for. Selling the remaining players and replacing them with less then saying it was the wrong window to address what we need and our issues.

 

[White Wolf]

I just don't get how our fans became so patient. When I was a kid I remember our fans turning much more frequently and gunning for the owners. The double relegation was so toxic. Shi and Fosun got so much leeway, fans swallowed most of their narratives for ages and you've got people thinking the fans are at fault for us being rubbish at home (only 1 point away also). Same goes for the FFP narrative, that we were only bottom last year due to difficult opening fixtures, that Lage and O'Neil were actually good. Our fans used to be much more sceptical of what the club did.

I wouldn't sack Edwards fwiw as we need someone new for the summer rebuild already so a new manager losing every game until May would also need to go. But even complete no-hoper teams and managers have gotten some points and a win. Players and manager clearly at fault.

 

[SSB]

Its not apathy though, they got a rousing reception at the end today. It was so bizarre.

I don't understand why it isn't fury?

Fans clapped Strand Larsen when he warmed up down the touchline yesterday.l during the game. Just over a week ago the South Bank would have lynched him if they had the chance.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

This shows the end of game clap fest.

 

[Bigbadwulf07]

This shows the end of game clap fest.

I can't see how you can differentiate who you are clapping for. Mane and to a lesser extent Tolu deserved some applause, the likes of JSL recently did not. As far as the team approaching the support at the end, I think that's right too. They should appreciate/face the supporters that have spent time and money to watch them

 

[SSB]

I can't see how you can differentiate who you are clapping for. Mane and to a lesser extent Tolu deserved some applause, the likes of JSL recently did not. As far as the team approaching the support at the end, I think that's right too. They should appreciate/face the supporters that have spent time and money to watch them

Suppose you could clap and boo at the same time? I was half way across Stanley Park by then.

 

[Tony Towner]

We've replaced the viserol element from years gone by with the 'we'll support you evermore' brigade who benchmark their love of the club by refusing to criticise it. It's been evident online for a number of years with the likes of that Danks bloke, although I don't think he believes 95% of what he says.

Refusing to hold Edwards to account for performances and results is just the latest way to demonstrate that. We were going down anyway so judge him on next season, I mean the first part is true, but strikes me as very naive and I'm not sure why you'd want to spend money watching a team you have no expectation to see improve.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We've replaced the viserol element from years gone by with the 'we'll support you evermore' brigade who benchmark their love of the club by refusing to criticise it. It's been evident online for a number of years with the likes of that Danks bloke, although I don't think he believes 95% of what he says.

Refusing to hold Edwards to account for performances and results is just the latest way to demonstrate that. We were going down anyway so judge him on next season, I mean the first part is true, but strikes me as very naive and I'm not sure why you'd want to spend money watching a team you have no expectation to see improve.

Well put.