The Football News Thread 2019/20 - everything not Wolves

[Sniffer]

Its no consolation Banjo :icon_wink:

Bank appoints a panel expert advisor to help a company struggling at a set fee of x.

Panel advisor can't help with a claim of retention of title so advises that administration is the best option.

The panel advisor, the bank and the lawyers all nod through their fees.

Administration.

Suddenly the panel advisor, (now appointed administrators) find a solution to the retention of title claim with for a huge sum that would have kept the company out of administration.

The administrators with a list of potential buyers given to them pre admin piss about for weeks on end protecting the creditors interests. whilst searching for USP's etc etc.

The administrators sell company to the name at the top of the pre admin list.

Administrators picks up fees of x multiplied by 20.

 

[Banjo]

Its no consolation Banjo :icon_wink:

Bank appoints a panel expert advisor to help a company struggling at a set fee of x.

Panel advisor can't help with a claim of retention of title so advises that administration is the best option.

The panel advisor, the bank and the lawyers all nod through their fees.

Administration.

Suddenly the panel advisor, (now appointed administrators) find a solution to the retention of title claim with for a huge sum that would have kept the company out of administration.

The administrators with a list of potential buyers given to them pre admin piss about for weeks on end protecting the creditors interests. whilst searching for USP's etc etc.

The administrators sell company to the name at the top of the pre admin list.

Administrators picks up fees of x multiplied by 20.

That is not a typical administration (although very few company insolvencies result in admin these days in any event).

In your example, I'm struggling to follow the ROT claim point. Who is claiming ROT? A supplier over the company's stock? If so, the company should take legal advice on the scope and efficacy of the ROT clause *long before* things have got so bad that the bank has got the jitters and has instructed an IP to carry out an IBR.

There are so many ways of avoiding a formal insolvency process and, therefore, avoiding office holders coming in and taking their fees. Companies should take their own legal and insolvency advice at the earliest possible moment.

 

[Sniffer]

That is not a typical administration (although very few company insolvencies result in admin these days in any event).

In your example, I'm struggling to follow the ROT claim point. Who is claiming ROT? A supplier over the company's stock? If so, the company should take legal advice on the scope and efficacy of the ROT clause *long before* things have got so bad that the bank has got the jitters and has instructed an IP to carry out an IBR.

There are so many ways of avoiding a formal insolvency process and, therefore, avoiding office holders coming in and taking their fees. Companies should take their own legal and insolvency advice at the earliest possible moment.

Foreign parent company goes into admin owing UK subsidiary a huge sum but holds stock purchased from UK of a significant value. UK Subsidiary seeks legal advice regarding its position from its own lawyer about continuing as a going concern outside of the German admin. Advice states that whilst it isn't balance sheet insolvent or cash flow insolvent then it can continue. This seriously pisses off the German administrator. Bank is informed who then states that a review is required from one of its panel advisors. Panel advisor states that without cash from the retention of title claim then it's state is perilous. Advisor listens to conversation's with the German administrator, who refuses point blank to accept any ROT claim. The advisor recommends that administration is the only option without it. Day after administration the advisor (now administrator) gets the German administrator to agree the ROT claim.

Call it naivety on our part for not getting advice from elsewhere at that point but the Bank would only allow us to to deal with their panel appointed firms. In 2009 all the banks were looking for was to recoup their potential losses and not being involved in a protracted series of events. Bank recouped all its lending plus the additional charges in full and the creditors would have been without the extortionate charges of the administrator.

 

[Sniffer]

That is not a typical administration (although very few company insolvencies result in admin these days in any event).

In your example, I'm struggling to follow the ROT claim point. Who is claiming ROT? A supplier over the company's stock? If so, the company should take legal advice on the scope and efficacy of the ROT clause *long before* things have got so bad that the bank has got the jitters and has instructed an IP to carry out an IBR.

There are so many ways of avoiding a formal insolvency process and, therefore, avoiding office holders coming in and taking their fees. Companies should take their own legal and insolvency advice at the earliest possible moment.

Foreign parent company goes into admin owing UK subsidiary a huge sum but holds stock purchased from UK of a significant value. UK Subsidiary seeks legal advice regarding its position from its own lawyer about continuing as a going concern outside of the German admin. Advice states that whilst it isn't balance sheet insolvent or cash flow insolvent then it can continue. This seriously pisses off the German administrator. Bank is informed who then states that a review is required from one of its panel advisors. Panel advisor states that without cash from the retention of title claim then it's state is perilous. Advisor listens to conversation's with the German administrator, who refuses point blank to accept any ROT claim. The advisor recommends that administration is the only option without it. Day after administration the advisor (now administrator) gets the German administrator to agree the ROT claim.

Call it naivety on our part for not getting advice from elsewhere at that point but the Bank would only allow us to to deal with their panel appointed firms. In 2009 all the banks were looking for was to recoup their potential losses and not being involved in a protracted series of events. Bank recouped all its lending plus the additional charges in full and the creditors would have been without the extortionate charges of the administrator.

 

[James]

Bolton sold to Football Ventures and Tony

 

[James]

Offer also on table for bury if the EFL reverse there decision

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

They won't

 

[James]

They won't

Jim “countdown” White has said it might come down to a club vote if the offer and funds from an international consortium is legit

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Bolton sold to Football Ventures and Tony

It sounds from the statement that the Eddie Davies trust had to move their position hugely and lose out financially to ensure that Ken Anderson was paid enough to fuck off.

That man is a disgrace. Bolton are almost certainly doomed to relegation, and I can happily wish them another relegation to follow but they will still exist.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Jim “countdown” White has said it might come down to a club vote if the offer and funds from an international consortium is legit

He knows fuck all.

 

[James]

It sounds from the statement that the Eddie Davies trust had to move their position hugely and lose out financially to ensure that Ken Anderson was paid enough to fuck off.

That man is a disgrace. Bolton are almost certainly doomed to relegation, and I can happily wish them another relegation to follow but they will still exist.

Anderson is an absolute cock womble for what he did and has done even to that club.

He knows fuck all.

Did you hear him on talkSPORT trying to justify his actions.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

No. They had moved on to other things by the time I heard a few minutes of Jim White (he's alright - yeah right, like syphillis).

 

[James]

Pinned a lot of the countdown stuff on sky sports and said he’s just a voice

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

He's a lying voice then. He rules SSN.

 

[Banjo]

Foreign parent company goes into admin owing UK subsidiary a huge sum but holds stock purchased from UK of a significant value. UK Subsidiary seeks legal advice regarding its position from its own lawyer about continuing as a going concern outside of the German admin. Advice states that whilst it isn't balance sheet insolvent or cash flow insolvent then it can continue. This seriously pisses off the German administrator. Bank is informed who then states that a review is required from one of its panel advisors. Panel advisor states that without cash from the retention of title claim then it's state is perilous. Advisor listens to conversation's with the German administrator, who refuses point blank to accept any ROT claim. The advisor recommends that administration is the only option without it. Day after administration the advisor (now administrator) gets the German administrator to agree the ROT claim.

Call it naivety on our part for not getting advice from elsewhere at that point but the Bank would only allow us to to deal with their panel appointed firms. In 2009 all the banks were looking for was to recoup their potential losses and not being involved in a protracted series of events. Bank recouped all its lending plus the additional charges in full and the creditors would have been without the extortionate charges of the administrator.

I think a huge part in your situation (which, apologies, I thought was just a hypothetical example originally) was the fact that the German administrator would have struggled considerably with the way ROT works in England & Wales. ROT is not a particularly harmonised area of law and is a minefield when multiple jurisdictions are involved.

It also seems highly irregular for a bank to dictate to its customers who they should use for legal and accounting advice.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Man of the people Banjo, here :icon_lol:

(Love you really man x)

 

[Banjo]

Hey now, my job is to recover monies for creditors. I don't tend to act on administrations. I usually act for liquidators in recovering monies for creditors when the starting point is there are none. In those circumstances, me and my client (the liquidator) act on a conditional basis - we can only bill our time if we recover money for creditors.

Administrations have not solved the problem they were designed to solve. Firms like David Rubin & Partners are not the type of people I act for.

 

[Tony Towner]

Bolton sold to Football Ventures and Tony

[emoji6]

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Hey now, my job is to recover monies for creditors. I don't tend to act on administrations. I usually act for liquidators in recovering monies for creditors when the starting point is there are none. In those circumstances, me and my client (the liquidator) act on a conditional basis - we can only bill our time if we recover money for creditors.

Administrations have not solved the problem they were designed to solve. Firms like David Rubin & Partners are not the type of people I act for.

Don't give me your fucking excuses, you vulture.

 

[Banjo]

Don't give me your fucking excuses, you vulture.

Ha. I'm basically the Money Shop in human form, it's true.