Summer 2020 Transfer Window (Extended Version)

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It is certainly the opinion of an Arsenal mate of mine that if we wanted shot of Doc and wanted AMN in, then instead of flogging Doc for 15m and buying AMN for 20-25m, then a straight swap would have been a better deal.
Obviously Arsenal aren't interested in Doc, but it shows that other fans think that Doc has been underpriced.
Ultimately if the club are happy to sell at the reported price, then fair enough. I assume there is/are other deals incoming due which will balance things. We shall see.

No elitism here, I'm referring to the many posters on here who will refer to E&S article posts, Facebook posts, "gerrim in" and "gerrit forward" remarks, "the state of the replies on that Tweet". Does nobody on here say that? Has nobody on here stated "they hate our fans"? I'm no elitist, I will often admit I'm probably wrong and, for the last time, I've stated more times than I remember that I'm only posting my opinions and I could well be wrong. So if you now want to play the victim card feel free mate because you're not getting a bite here, I'm just referencing hundreds of past posts on here that would infer that if the majority think we've been done over then the chances are they could well be wrong.

If you want to infer that I think that those people are stupid that's up to you, and if you also want to use those people's opinions to back up your argument that 'we've been done over' that's up to you as well. Still doesn't make you right.

I said there are a majority of fans that share my view, your response was to imply they are stupid. I'm not "inferring it, its clear from your post!??

Waffle on as much as you like, but if your answer to people having a different opinion to you is to say they're "not the brightest" then I'm not sure your arguments can stand up to much scrutiny?

Based on the information we have we are getting 13.5mill for Doc, the only place I've seen Wolves fans think that is a fair price is on here.

 

[Boozad]

I said there are a majority of fans that share my view, your response was to imply they are stupid. I'm not "inferring it, its clear from your post!??

Waffle on as much as you like, but if your answer to people having a different opinion to you is to say they're "not the brightest" then I'm not sure your arguments can stand up to much scrutiny?

Based on the information we have we are getting 13.5mill for Doc, the only place I've seen Wolves fans think that is a fair price is on here.

Maybe we'll bring back The Liquidator or "announce Dias" as well at a shirt unveiling. If you can't get the point that just because a lot fans think Doherty has gone on the cheap makes it right then I'll stop "waffling". To be honest I said I wouldn't get involved in the discussion but went against my better judgement and you're a stark reminder as to why I shouldn't have bothered. And if you think your "This. Exactly this" arguments are worth scrutinising more power to you. Maybe you should read more if you think this is the only place people think that the Doherty could well be decent, or maybe that wouldn't fit your agenda. Anyway I'll leave it alone now as obviously typing more than three words to debate a point is just waffle to you.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You suggest people "aren't the brightest" because they have an opposing view to you, then claim to be the victim yourself?

Baffling.

And yes I did agree with TT's post hours ago that Doc will likely not be a success at Spurs (for myriad of reasons, most notably they don't play the same formation as us) but also think that the fee is too low, did that really stir you up to this extent?

What is my agenda? Let me know please, you're far more intelligent after all.

 

[Boozad]

Anyway I'll leave it alone now as obviously typing more than three words to debate a point is just waffle to you.

.

 

[t3ch]

well this is fun

 

[Freddeno]

He's not just worth what someone will pay though, he's worth what we accept. And if that offer isn't good enough, we reject it. Similarly to how we'd all react if we sold Raul for £35m. Similar age and contract, but nowhere near enough to adequately replace the output that's pretty much guaranteed, even if it's only for the next 2 years.

Yes, true

 

[Tony Towner]

I don't understand why in some people's minds the club HAVE to get everything right. . Mild criticism or questioning is treated like heresy sometimes.

I'm sure we can all agree that the first year aside, Fosun's ownership of the club has been fantatsic, delivering 3 years of success beyond any of our realistic dreams and that has brought an element of deserved trust.
That doesn't however mean that every decision made is correct and individual ones aren't at least open to scrutiny.

People are putting 2 unrelated opinions/information together and making them fact. The first is that Doherty is in the first 2 players from the starting 11 that could and should be upgraded, the second is that therefore £15m is about the right value for your worst/second worse starting player. I don't agree that those 2 points are related. The vast majority, myself included would agree with the first, but for me the second doesn't necessarily follow.

I'm not going to go through the list of reasons again why I think it's at least £5m undervalued, you either agree or you don't, other than to say there are 2 new pieces of information which I still don't see as justification. The first is Nuno's agreement to the sale and the second is Doherty wants it. The former means he was informed there was interest from Tottenham, if we get a offer we like would you be ok with him going, it doesn't mean he signed off on the fee. The latter doesn't mean he was agitating for the move and had thrown his toys, he could have been told that we'll let you know when we get a deal we like. The deal seems to have been resolved very quickly, now if we play hardball perhaps Spurs walk, perhaps Doherty does have a strop or perhaps after 3/4 days we get another few million who knows?

There wasn't a 'what is Matt Doherty worth poll' on here a week ago, but when the original £12m was linked, it was generally viewed with derision. The club have accepted £15m and because they have that's now his value. That's not necessarily so, that's the value they've accepted, it doesn't make it correct and yes they know better than me and others who disagree etc, but it doesn't mean they are in the right on this occasion. Also just to throw another talking point out there, this is Jeff's deal - all the others Costa, Cav etc were Thelwell's. He's not from a football background so who is advising him, what are their credentials and are they competent? If the answer to that is Mendes, then as Doherty's agent that's murky to say the least. If it isn't then who is it?

As for the Jaguar analogy earlier. I'd make sure I'd secured the deal on it first before trading in my old car, otherwise if the finance on that falls through I'm left with nothing to drive. Doherty hasn't left yet, I hope when he does the ink is dry on the contract of his replacement and is not still work in progress

 

[Freddeno]

Do you need a caveat?

If the reported fee of 15mill (13.5 with sell on) is correct in the sale of Matt Doherty then yes I think we could and should have got more, is that an unreasonable view now?

yeah, definately, 25m i would say is a fair price

 

[Norman Deeley]

I think the Jeff Shi/Thelwell point is a good one. My perception - admittedly from 200 miles away - is that Jeff Shi doesn't know that much about football and is doing several jobs too many.

 

[AndyWolves]

I think the Jeff Shi/Thelwell point is a good one. My perception - admittedly from 200 miles away - is that Jeff Shi doesn't know that much about football and is doing several jobs too many.

I don't think Jeff made this decision in complete isolation. IURC there is a team who help him with recruitment

 

[Norman Deeley]

I don't think Jeff made this decision in complete isolation. IURC there is a team who help him with recruitment

I'm sure that's right. But in any business negotiation there's someone who ultimately makes a decision on price. The simple fact remains: we kick off two weeks on Monday. We have 13 players...

 

[prawnking]

I will often admit I'm probably wrong

Are you sure? You had a couple of chances to do just that last night and seemed to struggle a bit ;-)

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Despite favourable stats that on face value suggest the fee is low those of us who have watched him know he’s in a specialist role that few other teams play. If we can see it others can. Spurs seem to want to use him slightly differently to us but may allow him to push forward more than their left back so Mourinho clearly sees a role for him. If Nuno wants to change things a little and is prepared to let Doherty go we can only sell him for what someone will pay. Given the speculation other teams would have known he’s available but nobody has come in and offered more, so we’ve got a fair price.

 

[AndyWolves]

I'm sure that's right. But in any business negotiation there's someone who ultimately makes a decision on price. The simple fact remains: we kick off two weeks on Monday. We have 13 players...

It's exciting though isn't it?
Do we have a plan? Will we get someone in? How many? Will Adama be at RWB? Is AMN coming in? Does Jorge have something up his sleeve for us? Will we look fresh or knackered when we start? Are Fosun still interested?
Much more going on now than a few seasons ago!!

 

[Freddeno]

Despite favourable stats that on face value suggest the fee is low those of us who have watched him know he’s in a specialist role that few other teams play. If we can see it others can. Spurs seem to want to use him slightly differently to us but may allow him to push forward more than their left back so Mourinho clearly sees a role for him. If Nuno wants to change things a little and is prepared to let Doherty go we can only sell him for what someone will pay. Given the speculation other teams would have known he’s available but nobody has come in and offered more, so we’ve got a fair price.

if not in Nunos plans..make it public and we will get more cash for him..

 

[Wilf Wolf]

It was public. If other teams were interested they had the opportunity to put a bid in and I’m sure we made it known he was available. We lost Dann when he was at the training ground!

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

It does seem a low fee, only thing I can think of is that the club are confident of securing a replacement and that maybe 10 years service has come into the fee calculation.

On the face of it, which is all we can see, it doesnt make much sense. There is rightly some credit in the clubs management but they can still make mistakes and be questioned on it.

Maybe we are starting Podence and Traore as wing backs!

 

[Law's Bus]

The simple fact remains: we kick off two weeks on Monday. We have 13 players...

Which of:

Patricio, Ruddy, Boly, Coady, Saiss, Vinagre, Neves, Moutinho, Dendoncker, Neto, Jimenez, Podence, Jota, Traore, Sarkic, Kilman, Buur, Jordao and Campana, all of whom are listed as first-team players by the club, don't count? Plus at the moment, Doherty is still our player as is Bennett (and Miranda, and Bonatini, but shrug to both of them); and we can't count Jonny at this time.

Yes, I'm concerned that we have a squad that's too small - especially in the wing-back positions if and when Doherty goes. But for people to constantly come out with "13 players" is just plain wrong.

 

[Kenny]

I'm sure that's right. But in any business negotiation there's someone who ultimately makes a decision on price.

and Jeff has done that since becoming Chairman. Thelwell might have done the talking but it was never signed off until Jeff gave the thumbs up and he was often part of the talks when buying/selling. All that has changed now is the people below him and the structure tweaked. So we have football people, such as Sellars, the other dude who's name I forget and it seems Nuno is now more involved in the process. No fear of Jeff taking on too much for me, on each side of the business he has put people he trusts in charge and he steps in when it gets to the stage where he is required.

 

[sycophantia]

I'm quite surprised that people take any notice of the 'reported fee'. Does anyone really believe anything that comes out of the media or even worse the twitterati? Its all complete guess work. Tbh I don't really care what players fetch or cost, so long as we're managing the accounts and getting in the players we want. Don't get me wrong I am surprised Doc is on his way out (if true) and a little concerned we haven't signed a replacement, especially with Jonny crocked. If AMN comes in, to replace him thats fine but it still leaves us with no cover at wb. But I'm not gunna lose my shit over it.