Summer 2020 Transfer Window (Extended Version)

[Boozad]

All that was two or more years ago though, our more recent record doesn't inspire as much confidence?

In you maybe. Personally I'm fine with how they're doing things at the moment.

 

[darlowolf64]

In you maybe. Personally I'm fine with how they're doing things at the moment.

But we're selling the easiest player to upgrade on for only £13.5m or £15m or £12m or £15m plus add-ons upto £20m (believe whichever un-ITK journo you want to)

IT'S A DISGRACE

 

[Boozad]

It's a two pronged argument.

1) We're selling Doherty at way below his value. Actually we're not, we're selling him at what the club value him at and are happy to accept, they haven't been strong-armed into this and all agree on the sale. Anything beyond that is impossible to quantify.

2) Our recruitment in the last 2+ years doesn't inspire confidence. Neto and Podence look like proper ballers, they definitely have big futures here. Vallejo failed miserably and Cutrone didn't want it, no arguments there, but I don't remember a single person bemoaning the signings of a former Spain U21 captain from Real and a hot prospect from Milan who'd had a very good season prior to the one where we signed him and happened to be an Italian international. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but to say those signings were dire after the fact is rich, we were all happy with them when they were made, sometimes they just don't work out. And as for the "replacing Bennett has been easy" remark then we did it with Saiss when Vallejo failed. And we finished 7th in the league and got to a European QF along the way so it was hardly a failure in itself. And no doubt this season we'll try again and hopefully this time get it right.

 

[prawnking]

Vallejo failed miserably and Cutrone didn't want it, no arguments there, but I don't remember a single person bemoaning the signings of a former Spain U21 captain from Real and a hot prospect from Milan who'd had a very good season prior to the one where we signed him and happened to be an Italian international.

Sorry, this is wrong. There were several people (myself included) who weren't that enamoured by the signings last summer, and who were a little disappointed we hadn't done more to strengthen the first XI, at least the Vallejo role. Read the thread again.

And the 'replacing' of Bennett with Saiss is nothing to do with recruitment and everything to do with good management/using a good utility player.

Our recent recruitment of wide forwards has been pretty good, I'll give you that, but we're not looking for that particular niche anymore.

 

[prawnking]

we're selling him at what the club value him at and are happy to accept, they haven't been strong-armed into this and all agree on the sale. Anything beyond that is impossible to quantify.

Also, I notice this kind of thing is now getting repeated as concrete fact...isn't this 'Nuno and Jeff are in harmony and Doc wanted to leave and Nuno wanted him to leave' line just taken from one John Percy tweet? (happy to be corrected if I've missed something else...and yes I know Percy is pretty reliable but even so...)

 

[Boozad]

Sorry, this is wrong. There were several people (myself included) who weren't that enamoured by the signings last summer, and who were a little disappointed we hadn't done more to strengthen the first XI, at least the Vallejo role. Read the thread again.

Certain people always want more, we sign six and they want seven. Did you not want Vallejo or Cutrone?

And the 'replacing' of Bennett with Saiss is nothing to do with recruitment and everything to do with good management/using a good utility player.

And what did I say after that?

Our recent recruitment of wide forwards has been pretty good, I'll give you that, but we're not looking for that particular niche anymore.

Never said we were. We're not looking for them as our recruitment there has been spot on.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Forgive my ignorance, but is the supposed sell on fee still valid? Doc has been here 10 years, so has had several contracts, will the original have had a stipulation that all further contracts require the sell on clause to be added on?

Well Bohs are already making plans to spend it, so they are expecting their cut to work it's way over.

 

[Boozad]

Also, I notice this kind of thing is now getting repeated as concrete fact...isn't this 'Nuno and Jeff are in harmony and Doc wanted to leave and Nuno wanted him to leave' line just taken from one John Percy tweet? (happy to be corrected if I've missed something else...and yes I know Percy is pretty reliable but even so...)

At least four people on here have been repeating as concrete fact that 'we've sold at below his value'. You show me evidence of that and I'll play quid pro quo. The only fact I'll refer to is that this club haven't been shafted yet while Fosun have been in charge so I doubt they have been in this case. And I've stated many times that nothing I say is gospel, just my opinion. Again, show me where I haven't and I'll concede that it's me forcing my opinions as fact.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Do you need a caveat?

If the reported fee of 15mill (13.5 with sell on) is correct in the sale of Matt Doherty then yes I think we could and should have got more, is that an unreasonable view now?

 

[BillyDee]

Well Bohs are already making plans to spend it, so they are expecting their cut to work it's way over.

Fair enough. Seems strange to me, but if it is what it is, then it is what it is.

 

[Boozad]

Do you need a caveat?

If the reported fee of 15mill (13.5 with sell on) is correct in the sale of Matt Doherty then yes I think we could and should have got more, is that an unreasonable view now?

Not at all. It's perfectly reasonable. It's not a fact though.

 

[prawnking]

Certain people always want more, we sign six and they want seven.

Come on... you were dismissing last summer's poor window by saying that the criticism was all hindsight, ...well I've just proved to you it wasn't! Some weren't convinced at all. Not just with Vallejo and Cutrone but with the window in general. Nothing to do with being unreasonable, or wanting seven players! Let's not re-write history here

In the past couple of windows we've signed (imo) two flops in key areas and two good squad players in secondary areas, and a bunch of young lads who could develop into first team additions or not. Compared to our initial rush of four solid first team stars when we got promoted, it's quite a contrast. Not sure why, but it is. That's why I can't be so blase about our current situation.

That doesn't mean I hate Wolves, or want Nuno or Fosun to go, it just means recent evidence means more to me than blind faith

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Not at all. It's perfectly reasonable. It's not a fact though.

No it's an opinion, one shared by the majority of not just Wolves fans but football fans too.

 

[Boozad]

Come on... you were dismissing last summer's poor window by saying that the criticism was all hindsight, ...well I've just proved to you it wasn't! Some weren't convinced at all. Not just with Vallejo and Cutrone but with the window in general. Nothing to do with being unreasonable, or wanting seven players! Let's not re-write history here.

OK. How many thought Neto was a 'Mendes favour'? And what is he? Fucking ace. You don't get to have your cake and eat it. And I've never said the last window was poor, in net terms it cost us £20m, had absolutely zero effect on our league position and would more than likely make us a profit. If you think that's poor then maybe it's the moon on a stick you want.

In the past couple of windows we've signed (imo) two flops in key areas and two good squad players in secondary areas, and a bunch of young lads who could develop into first team additions or not. Compared to our initial rush of four solid first team stars when we got promoted, it's quite a contrast. Not sure why, but it is. That's why I can't be so blase about our current situation.

If you see Neto as a squad player in a secondary area there's not much I can do to argue. Cutrone was not a flop, he was a good player who didn't settle. Vallejo was the only flop. It's been said a few times but if you want to improve our first eleven now it's going to cost a lot of money, who should we have bought within our financial constraints?

That doesn't mean I hate Wolves, or want Nuno or Fosun to go, it just means recent evidence means more to me than blind faith

So you're saying I have blind faith? I'd rather look at it as I'm happy to trust the owners and manager who have improved us season after season so far and not lose my shit over things I can't control. And by improvement I mean points on the board, an FA Cup semi final and a European quarter final which weren't even a pipe dream three years ago. Some see the negative, some see the positive but the facts really are we've improved every season so far and I struggle to see why some people think we're suddenly going to piss that all away and go into a rapid decline.

 

[Boozad]

No it's an opinion, one shared by the majority of not just Wolves fans but football fans too.

It's widely accepted on here that most football fans aren't the brightest, even our own. So I completely understand that.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It's widely accepted on here that most football fans aren't the brightest, even our own. So I completely understand that.

Ah yes the TWF elitist, we know better than everyone else "fact".

So now people are stupid for thinking 13.5mill is a low fee too.

 

[BillyDee]

It is certainly the opinion of an Arsenal mate of mine that if we wanted shot of Doc and wanted AMN in, then instead of flogging Doc for 15m and buying AMN for 20-25m, then a straight swap would have been a better deal.
Obviously Arsenal aren't interested in Doc, but it shows that other fans think that Doc has been underpriced.
Ultimately if the club are happy to sell at the reported price, then fair enough. I assume there is/are other deals incoming due which will balance things. We shall see.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It is certainly the opinion of an Arsenal mate of mine that if we wanted shot of Doc and wanted AMN in, then instead of flogging Doc for 15m and buying AMN for 20-25m, then a straight swap would have been a better deal.
Obviously Arsenal aren't interested in Doc, but it shows that other fans think that Doc has been underpriced.
Ultimately if the club are happy to sell at the reported price, then fair enough. I assume there is/are other deals incoming due which will balance things. We shall see.

Likewise friends of mine be they Albion, Villa, United, Liverpool and bloody Coventry are all astonished that we are selling him for that fee ESPECIALLY because of how much we have made on players such as Cav and Costa.

 

[Boozad]

Ah yes the TWF elitist, we know better than everyone else "fact".

So now people are stupid for thinking 13.5mill is a low fee too.

No elitism here, I'm referring to the many posters on here who will refer to E&S article posts, Facebook posts, "gerrim in" and "gerrit forward" remarks, "the state of the replies on that Tweet". Does nobody on here say that? Has nobody on here stated "they hate our fans"? I'm no elitist, I will often admit I'm probably wrong and, for the last time, I've stated more times than I remember that I'm only posting my opinions and I could well be wrong. So if you now want to play the victim card feel free mate because you're not getting a bite here, I'm just referencing hundreds of past posts on here that would infer that if the majority think we've been done over then the chances are they could well be wrong.

If you want to infer that I think that those people are stupid that's up to you, and if you also want to use those people's opinions to back up your argument that 'we've been done over' that's up to you as well. Still doesn't make you right.

 

[Boozad]

Ultimately if the club are happy to sell at the reported price, then fair enough.

And that's the crux of it. Doesn't matter what side of the fence any of us fall on, it doesn't matter.