Summer 2020 Transfer Window (Extended Version)

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It applies to literally every player. It's not about determining what the value is, it's about relative worth compared to that value. If we sold Raul for £100m then whether or not he was worth £100m would be determined by how he plays from that point forwards.

Raul had a decent enough career before he came to Europe and won titles in Mexico. It didn't work out at Atletico (and he wouldn't be the first player to be stymied under Simeone) then by most accounts he did ok but he got stuck behind one or more very effective forwards at Benfica. So weight of evidence behind him is generally greater than it is for Doc, who did not look a PL level player before Nuno arrived.

I think you're missing my point.

If we were selling Raul, would how he performed whilst at Benfica have an effect on how much we would sell him for now? I don't think it would, a buyer (and us) would look at how he as performed over the last 2 seasons rattling in approaching 50 goals, not how he performed over 70 odd games at Benfica where he only managed 18.

Likewise why would how Doherty performed against Leyton Orient 5 years ago now be relevant to Mourinho? I'm sure he couldn't care less, he'd be looking at his performance at Sevilla and through the rest of the last 2 seasons.

Maybe when a buyer comes in for Kane they can try knocking 10million off the fee because he was dogshit on loan at Millwall, Leicester and Norwich?

 

[Tony Towner]

Unless I'm missing something you're pulling that number out of thin air though? There is no right or set way to quantify something like this.

Chilwell is going from a team that finished 5th to one that finished 4th for £50m. Doherty is going from one that finished 7th to one that was 6th for £15m. There's an age disadvantage but not £35m's worth.

Spurs sold Walker Peters who had played a handful of games to Southampton for £12m. Arsenal who finished below us have rejected the same price as we are allegedly accepting for Doherty for AMN who has only ever been a squad player.

None of that is directly comparable, but there is enough in there to suggest that £15m isn't fair value

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Chilwell is England's first choice LB tbf.

Doc can't get in the Ireland team ahead of a declining Coleman.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Matt Targett was 15million I think? 23 when he moved, but come on...

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

What do you think is a fair price for Doherty DW?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Chilwell is an England international

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Chilwell is England's first choice LB tbf.

Doc can't get in the Ireland team ahead of a declining Coleman.

Coleman is captain, which is significant - particularly in a McCarthy team.

 

[The Bear]

Based on the market prices, he's under 30, he has three years left on his contract, and his goal/assist output since we were promoted, his fee shouldn't be under £20m IMO. The fact he's a bit average defensively and he plays in a very specific role means it wouldn't get far over that though.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Plus Chelsea are spending insane money to support lampard. Measuring fees against what they spend is pointless.

 

[Tony Towner]

Doc can't get in the Ireland team ahead of a declining Coleman.

Thats irrelevant. Tottenham want him, not Coleman. They don't see the faults that we do or they wouldn't be wanting to sign him as their first choice right back.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Coleman is captain, which is significant - particularly in a McCarthy team.

Nope. It’s because they play rigid 4-4-2

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Thats irrelevant. Tottenham want him, not Coleman. They don't see the faults that we do or they wouldn't be wanting to sign him as their first choice right back.

Fine. Whatever. I’m sure you are right. Huzzah.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Based on the market prices, he's under 30, he has three years left on his contract, and his goal/assist output since we were promoted, his fee shouldn't be under £20m IMO. The fact he's a bit average defensively and he plays in a very specific role means it wouldn't get far over that though.

Agree with all that. 20 is about right I think, less than that and as much as 5mill below is pitiful when you compare with KWP, Matt "heart of a pea" Targett and the like.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

What do you think is a fair price for Doherty DW?

Whatever someone will pay.

If it's all true (and it seems more likely than not now that it is) then either we don't particularly want him any more, or he wants to go, or both. As such he doesn't have a future here.

Teams move on, look at Fergie selling McGrath, Whiteside, Strachan, Ince, Sharpe, Hughes, Kanchelskis, Pallister, Stam, Beckham, Butt, P Neville, van Nistelrooy. How many of those did he get wrong, maybe two at most? It's where Nuno earns his corn, assess where we are, where we can improve and if we need to be ruthless along the way, so be it.

Mucho wailing when we sold Douglas and Afobe as they were both popular. Don't think anyone has missed either for a second and he's been fully vindicated in what he did.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

As there is no report on a fee being agreed maybe just maybe wait and see?

 

[Premier Quality]

Chilwell is an England international

He’s also 23 years old and has more England caps than Doc has Ireland caps.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Nope. It’s because they play rigid 4-4-2

So when Coleman retires Doc won't be RB? Of course he will.

Much like with Scotland, both Tierney and Robertson are 2 of their better (best) players doesn’t mean the one that doesn't get to play in their favoured position is shit does it?

 

[Tony Towner]

We would want a lot more than £20m

Fine. Whatever. I’m sure you are right. Huzzah.

At least I'm consistent

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

He’s also 23 years old and has more England caps than Doc has Ireland caps.

People have jumped on TT's Chilwell example but haven't mentioned KWP for 12mill or Targett for 15mill that are surely also relevant? More so if anything as they are blatantly fair less able that Doc.

 

[The Bion]

I think you're missing my point.

If we were selling Raul, would how he performed whilst at Benfica have an effect on how much we would sell him for now? I don't think it would, a buyer (and us) would look at how he as performed over the last 2 seasons rattling in approaching 50 goals, not how he performed over 70 odd games at Benfica where he only managed 18.

Likewise why would how Doherty performed against Leyton Orient 5 years ago now be relevant to Mourinho? I'm sure he couldn't care less, he'd be looking at his performance at Sevilla and through the rest of the last 2 seasons.

Maybe when a buyer comes in for Kane they can try knocking 10million off the fee because he was dogshit on loan at Millwall, Leicester and Norwich?

No, I get it, but I think you're glossing over the weight of evidence. Kane has spent the better part of the last 5-6 years being one of the best strikers in the country and internationally under multiple managers - it far outweighs the time he spent on loan.

Equally before Nuno came Doc spent the best part of 7 years playing RB for a Championship (or lower) team and never really looking like he was playing beneath his level.

Spurs might not care how he used to play but I'm pretty certain we will, as it will affect the club's thinking as to whether we have reached the point where we have maximised his value. They will ask themselves if they believe he will be as effective for another team as he has been for us - the only way you can really do that is look at the player's history.

Anyway, we plainly disagree, so I'm fine to give this a rest if you are.