Summer 2020 Transfer Window (Extended Version)

[b3h]

Just caught up after slowly reading the thread since the Doc stuff started. Some good discussions on Doc that I guess we don't see much in detail otherwise. Good read as a guest....although I did hope by the time I got to the end something might have happened ha. Then again i haven't left this thread yet (cleared my history a few times)

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Whatever you think of Boly or Mike Dean, what do you think about Doherty's defending in that situation? His attempt to cover up Boly's fuck up was to run in, jump, turn sideways, close his eyes and wave his hands in the air like he just didn't care.

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I'm absolutely certain that if Neves had done what Doc did against Burnley he wouldn't be getting analysed like this with the "hE cOsT uS EuRoPe" nonsense.

But that's exactly what I'm talking about. People can't get over him being lazy 4 years ago so still want to persecute him for every single mistake and not give him credit when he plays very well (Sevilla).

 

[The Bear]

that would be descent

I dunno. Sounds like it'd be all downhill.

 

[Tony Towner]

Whatever you think of Boly or Mike Dean, what do you think about Doherty's defending in that situation? His attempt to cover up Boly's fuck up was to run in, jump, turn sideways, close his eyes and wave his hands in the air like he just didn't care.

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I said at the time, that's how he jumps and always has done, he got sent off for it once and did the same against Palace a week later and got away with it. I've never been a particular fan, although am full of admiration about what Nuno and he have achieved. I think Tottenham have bought a dud if indeed they do end up doing so. That said, I don't think it's fair saying things like he cost us Europe when in my view Boly was more culpable for that goal or Jonny let his man run against Sheff Utd.

 

[The Bear]

I just remember a couple of times when he was too tight to the CBs and the ball went over his head and we conceded. I don't have a good enough memory to be able to tell you who against.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

...

 

[Lycan]

I said at the time, that's how he jumps and always has done, he got sent off for it once and did the same against Palace a week later and got away with it. I've never been a particular fan, although am full of admiration about what Nuno has achieved with. I think Tottenham have bought a dud if indeed they do end up doing so. That said, I don't think it's fair saying things like he cost us Europe when in my view Boly was more culpable for that goal or Jonny let his man run against Sheff Utd.

Aye but you said you thought he defended the back post well. But then say you agree that he's prone to doing stupid things like jumping and waving his arms around while the ball is bouncing around in the penalty area?

I don't think Tottenham have bought a dud fwiw, his contributions for us in the Premier League + Europe have been overwhelmingly positive but I don't think defending the back post is one of his strengths.

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[Tony Towner]

Aye but you said you thought he defended the back post well. But then say you agree that he's prone to doing stupid things like jumping and waving his arms around while the ball is bouncing around in the penalty area?

I don't think Tottenham have bought a dud fwiw, his contributions for us in the Premier League + Europe have been overwhelmingly positive but I don't think defending the back post is one of his strengths.

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That wasn't defending the back post. It was the centre of the goal, because the centre half went walkabout. I know what I've seen over the last 3 years with high balls and him flicking them away, if you don't agree then that's cool

 

[Lycan]

That wasn't defending the back post. It was the centre of the goal, because the centre half went walkabout.

That's part of defending the back post though surely, you're got to step in and deal with it if you sense danger.

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[The Bion]

But it's not relevant when we are talking about his fee and his worth to Wolves, can't say I'm too bothered how he turns out for Spurs, but I think he'll be better than many on here expect.

Of course it is. Whatever it ends up being, his relative worth compared to what they pay will be judged by how he performs for them. If we sell for £15m and he turns into Frank Sinclair scoring an own goal every other week then we will have done well to maximise his value. If he scores a hattrick to win them the league on the final day then we've probably made a bad deal.

We don't know how it'll turn out, but prior evidence suggests a regression from how he has played the last couple years.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Of course it is. Whatever it ends up being, his relative worth compared to what they pay will be judged by how he performs for them. If we sell for £15m and he turns into Frank Sinclair scoring an own goal every other week then we will have done well to maximise his value. If he scores a hattrick to win them the league on the final day then we've probably made a bad deal.

We don't know how it'll turn out, but prior evidence suggests a regression from how he has played the last couple years.

No not having this, how he performed 4 years is irrelevant to how much value he holds now, or is Raul's value determined in any way by how many goals he didn't score for Atletico Madrid and Benfica too?

I've never known a player have how he used to play years and years ago brought up so much.

 

[Tony Towner]

Of course it is. Whatever it ends up being, his relative worth compared to what they pay will be judged by how he performs for them. If we sell for £15m and he turns into Frank Sinclair scoring an own goal every other week then we will have done well to maximise his value. If he scores a hattrick to win them the league on the final day then we've probably made a bad deal.

We don't know how it'll turn out, but prior evidence suggests a regression from how he has played the last couple years.

His value to them is an irrelevance to me, it's his value to us and what potentially is a failure to squeeze that out of Spurs is what irks me. His value to us whilst we don't have a replacement is £20m+. At the moment whilst we don't have that replacement we should be forcing them to pay what his worth is to Wolves. We finished 7th last year, he's not old, is under a decent contract and is undoubtedly in out first 11. They don't pay that then, no deal

 

[Boozad]

His value to us whilst we don't have a replacement is £20m+.

If the club accept less then it most blatantly isn't.

 

[Tony Towner]

If the club accept less then it most blatantly isn't.

Depends if you believe those that accept it know what they are doing I guess. Time will tell

 

[Freddeno]

No not having this, how he performed 4 years is irrelevant to how much value he holds now, or is Raul's value determined in any way by how many goals he didn't score for Atletico Madrid and Benfica too?

I've never known a player have how he used to play years and years ago brought up so much.

True

 

[Kenny]

I've never known a player have how he used to play years and years ago brought up so much.

That is purely down to the transformation of the player since Nuno arrived.
Never in a million years would you have expected him to step up to such a level, so obviously people are going to talk about that.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

That is purely down to the transformation of the player since Nuno arrived.
Never in a million years would you have expected him to step up to such a level, so obviously people are going to talk about that.

They don't do it anywhere near as frequently with Coady and he was equally maligned prior to Nuno.

 

[The Bion]

No not having this, how he performed 4 years is irrelevant to how much value he holds now, or is Raul's value determined in any way by how many goals he didn't score for Atletico Madrid and Benfica too?

I've never known a player have how he used to play years and years ago brought up so much.

It applies to literally every player. It's not about determining what the value is, it's about relative worth compared to that value. If we sold Raul for £100m then whether or not he was worth £100m would be determined by how he plays from that point forwards.

Raul had a decent enough career before he came to Europe and won titles in Mexico. It didn't work out at Atletico (and he wouldn't be the first player to be stymied under Simeone) then by most accounts he did ok but he got stuck behind one or more very effective forwards at Benfica. So weight of evidence behind him is generally greater than it is for Doc, who did not look a PL level player before Nuno arrived.

 

[Freddeno]

That is purely down to the transformation of the player since Nuno arrived.
Never in a million years would you have expected him to step up to such a level, so obviously people are going to talk about that.

well you have a point there too Kenny..Nuno and his team is doing an amazing job with developing players in what they want out of them ..still, the price if true...

 

[The Bion]

His value to them is an irrelevance to me, it's his value to us and what potentially is a failure to squeeze that out of Spurs is what irks me. His value to us whilst we don't have a replacement is £20m+. At the moment whilst we don't have that replacement we should be forcing them to pay what his worth is to Wolves. We finished 7th last year, he's not old, is under a decent contract and is undoubtedly in out first 11. They don't pay that then, no deal

Unless I'm missing something you're pulling that number out of thin air though? There is no right or set way to quantify something like this.