Summer 2017 Window Thread

[Alan]

Chelsea, both Madrids, Barca and Bayern all managed it last season.

Not really a fair comparison.

 

[Johnny75]

Exactly this. There'll be games where the opposition will be defending well and Bonatini/Gallagher isn't working. Maybe they'll be playing a high line to give our AMs less space. Dicko can come on and try and exploit that.

Costa and Cavaliero are no slouches so a high line would fail just by pinging the ball over the top for them to chase. Your forward can then catch up. We play a very adaptable formation and as ND says Dicko just isn't that good to have an entire team change its mindset for.

 

[Johnny75]

Not really a fair comparison.

Why do they play under different rules?

 

[Alan]

Why do they play under different rules?

We may have good players now but those clubs you listed are magnitudes better than their immediate competition.

 

[Johnny75]

We may have good players now but those clubs you listed are magnitudes better than their immediate competition.

You think Chelsea had a better squad by magnitudes then Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs? Did you think the same about Leicester too, who also didn't change their tactics one iota when they won the league?

 

[Alan]

You think Chelsea had a better squad by magnitudes then Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs? Did you think the same about Leicester too, who also didn't change their tactics one iota when they won the league?

You're missing my point. We are not the same level relative to the Championship as Chelsea or especially Bayern/Madrid are relative to their leagues. It's a nonsense comparison; their players are so much better that they can overcome tactical faux pas against pretty much anyone.

We're rightfully up and around the most talented groups in the Championship but you're not going to tell me we can approach this league with the same tactical flexibility (or lack thereof) as Real Madrid, Barcelona, or Bayern without raising a serious eyebrow.

 

[Johnny75]

You're missing my point. We are not the same level relative to the Championship as Chelsea or especially Bayern/Madrid are relative to their leagues. It's a nonsense comparison; their players are so much better that they can overcome tactical faux pas against pretty much anyone.

We're rightfully up and around the most talented groups in the Championship but you're not going to tell me we can approach this league with the same tactical flexibility (or lack thereof) as Real Madrid, Barcelona, or Bayern without raising a serious eyebrow.

It isn't nonsense Alan as you have rightly pointed out it is relative and we are at the top of our division the same as they are in theirs. The players ability is also relative and tactical flexibility at this level is relatively unheard of as the teams under McCarthy, Warnock, Rowett, Clough and Wilder will bear out.

Both Middlesborough and Brighton went up not changing their style or their players much to fit into the tactics both managers have. I have only seen Mourinho change formation to accommodate a player when he was insistent on bringing Fellani on to lamp the ball to and I suppose you could argue Wenger changed formation to cope with Chelsea. Neither manager changed because they thought it was better for one player in their team, more that a different approach would work.

So far we haven't seen a different approach from Nuno and we don't know if that approach would involve Dicko either.

One last thing, how do you explain Leicester then?

 

[Alan]

They're an aberration. An outlier.

And I would argue we have seen tactical changes from Nuno already, significantly so against Yeovil and less significantly but no less noticably on Saturday when Cav replaced Bonatini.

We may be top of the league now but we could still reasonably finish in a similar position as last season. We aren't the Madrid of this league yet, not even close.

 

[Johnny75]

They're an aberration. An outlier.

And I would argue we have seen tactical changes from Nuno already, significantly so against Yeovil and less significantly but no less noticably on Saturday when Cav replaced Bonatini.

You can't pick and choose your data sets Alan, Leicester won the league with a certain style and formation (4-4-2 counter), exactly the same with Chelsea last season (3-4-2-1). They didn't change their styles.

Nuno hasn't changed his tactics yet, personnel yes but tactics no. Edwards and Dicko have really struggled in the new system.

 

[Alan]

Outliers don't count in data analysis. Leicester are an outlier as they proved last season when their one tactic was thoroughly found out. Therefore they do not matter in this discussion.

Also just reading the reports will tell you that we changed style when Cav came in for Leo. The front three became fluid which is a massive change for defenders to cope with, so I absolutely count that as tactical flexibility.

 

[Johnny75]

Outliers don't count in data analysis. Leicester are an outlier as they proved last season when their one tactic was thoroughly found out. Therefore they do not matter in this discussion.

Also just reading the reports will tell you that we changed style when Cav came in for Leo. The front three became fluid which is a massive change for defenders to cope with, so I absolutely count that as tactical flexibility.

Genuine question, have you seen a game this season?

 

[Kenny]

Outliers don't count in data analysis. Leicester are an outlier as they proved last season when their one tactic was thoroughly found out.

They changed their tactics about 3 times last season and only got back to "normal" after Shakespeare got the job and put them back to how they were when they won the League

 

[Alan]

Genuine question, have you seen a game this season?

Not of ours. I read the reports available. But that's not really relevant here and honestly if you tell me we play the same way with Cav up front as with Bonatini up front I simply won't believe you.

 

[Johnny75]

Not of ours. I read the reports available. But that's not really relevant here and honestly if you tell me we play the same way with Cav up front as with Bonatini up front I simply won't believe you.

Then you have no idea how we play then do you and everything you've assumed is based on third party say so. Having said that my view on it is:

Formation and tactics: Wolves have played 3-4-3 for every game this season, playing on the deck through the thirds using a Jose Mourinho style double pivot with two withdrawn front players off a central forward.

There are nuances within those tactics where a false nine has been used and all 3 front players are withdrawn off the defence a la Barca. This hasn't changed at any point across the games I have seen (admittedly that is only Leicester and 'Boro) so could've changed for Yeovil and Derby.

Cav played as a central forward against Leicester with Jota and Bright in the withdrawn roles and whilst he dropped deep sometimes (false nine) he did play in the central areas for most of his time on the pitch. Bonatini played as the central forward against 'Boro with Jota and Bright as the withdrawn pair either side of him. He also played very much centrally and also dropped deep.

Bonatini was better with his back to goal and held the ball up better than Cav. Cav moved laterally better than Bonatini and so had better movement off the ball allowing him to receive the ball better on the half turn.

It is up to you to believe what you like but I suggest when questioning somebody that has seen the games you have a better defence than 'I read other reports'.

 

[Alan]

I trust those reports more than yours, so you'll have to forgive me letting this roll off my back.

 

[Johnny75]

I trust those reports more than yours, so you'll have to forgive me letting this roll off my back.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Tony Towner]

Sounds like a classic 'come and get me'

“I do not know about Wolves’ possible interest,” Oliveira said. “I admire Nuno Espirito Santo as a coach and I even have friends at Wolves, but I’m happy at Norwich.”

 

[Alan]

Sounds like a classic 'come and get me'

“I do not know about Wolves’ possible interest,” Oliveira said. “I admire Nuno Espirito Santo as a coach and I even have friends at Wolves, but I’m happy at Norwich.”

Happy at Norwich? Who does he think is buying that story??

 

[Lycan]

Only 2nd hand info but NES is by his own admission quite inflexible tactically. He knows how he wants to play and the players must adapt to that.

I very much doubt we'll play anything other than 3-4-2-1 under Nuno, unless we have some injury crisis which forces a change.

 

[Alan]

Only 2nd hand info but NES is by his own admission quite inflexible tactically. He knows how he wants to play and the players must adapt to that.

I very much doubt we'll play anything other than 3-4-2-1 under Nuno, unless we have some injury crisis which forces a change.

I know his philosophy is rather fixed but in terms of on-the-fly adjustments he seems less stubborn than, say, Arsene Wenger.

I think it wouldn't be unfair to assume that maybe last year at Porto he learned that being too stubborn tactically can burn you and very literally cost you trophies.

Time will tell.