Pre-Season 2017

[big mean bunny]

Plenty of time for this to go wrong and turn into a 'worried about Doumbia' type of post, however I haven't felt this pleased to be a Wolves fan in years, we are in this thread debating if we are 343 or 433 in games and breaking down movement off the ball, what role strikers and attackers are occupying and discussing who else would fit the wingback system.

It's so early on but this appointment, the coaching staff it has led to and some of the players that have joined as a result feels like the first proper steps for us as a club to try and return to being a prem side who are just bottom feeders but could push for that lower 7th to 14th down league rather than what we had last time in the Prem.

Even if this admittedly early, very sparse green shoots doesn't translate into the season, I can't help but feel that if you look at the way someone like Price has performed in the games so far, and how so many of our youth prospect fit that kind of ball retention, tactically hybrid role you could argue he has developed from, then we are finally entering a pathway era where our next coach will be the same and the one after that and the one after that. None of this Lambert, Saunders types that want all their on guys for their style that then don't mesh with the academy vision or the next managers plans.

 

[Tredman]

Plenty of time for this to go wrong and turn into a 'worried about Doumbia' type of post, however I haven't felt this pleased to be a Wolves fan in years, we are in this thread debating if we are 343 or 433 in games and breaking down movement off the ball, what role strikers and attackers are occupying and discussing who else would fit the wingback system.

It's so early on but this appointment, the coaching staff it has led to and some of the players that have joined as a result feels like the first proper steps for us as a club to try and return to being a prem side who are just bottom feeders but could push for that lower 7th to 14th down league rather than what we had last time in the Prem.

Even if this admittedly early, very sparse green shoots doesn't translate into the season, I can't help but feel that if you look at the way someone like Price has performed in the games so far, and how so many of our youth prospect fit that kind of ball retention, tactically hybrid role you could argue he has developed from, then we are finally entering a pathway era where our next coach will be the same and the one after that and the one after that. None of this Lambert, Saunders types that want all their on guys for their style that then don't mesh with the academy vision or the next managers plans.

Good post that.

I do think we may start the season looking a bit like reading did last season - you could see what they were trying to do in the first game at Mol, but it really didn't come off and we beat them easily. They did finally get it together and played some really good football and got in the play offs - hope we can do the same.

 

[Tony Towner]

So for those coaches out there, let's assume we play with a 343 against a 442 and they are on the break, how do you avoid getting overloaded down the wings if they push the full backs on and the wide forwards are high up the pitch? Centre half moves out but that leaves space for the second forward, centre midfielder moves out, but that leaves us open in the middle. It strikes me as a heavily based possession game, but the Championship is played at a different pace to the Prem.

 

[Dinowolf]

So for those coaches out there, let's assume we play with a 343 against a 442 and they are on the break, how do you avoid getting overloaded down the wings if they push the full backs on and the wide forwards are high up the pitch? Centre half moves out but that leaves space for the second forward, centre midfielder moves out, but that leaves us open in the middle. It strikes me as a heavily based possession game, but the Championship is played at a different pace to the Prem.

A 3-4-3 is a formation that allows a team to place defensive pressure high up the field and pin opposition teams in their own half. To execute a 3-4-3 system defensively a team must possess defenders who are not easily beaten by the dribble in the forward and midfield positions. When using a 3-4-3 system you have more numbers higher up the field, therefore it is better to adopt a higher pressure system rather than to sit back and allow a team to try and expose your 3 man back line.

Forwards play a huge role in a defensive 3-4-3 system. The centre forward should take responsibility for both central defenders. The left forward should take responsibility for the right back, and vice versa on the other side. The system allows the wide forwards to play very aggressively and try to intercept passes to the full backs.

The central mids in a 3-4-3 system have similar defensive roles to that of a 4-4-2. They are responsible for pressuring the ball and cutting out easy direct passes up to the forwards. The wide players can have more defensive responsibility when playing in front of a 3-4-3. The CMs would constantly be aware of what is happening behind them, as they may be required to fill a central defensive cover spot at times in this system.

 

[Dinowolf]

I am concerned that players like Edwards and Mason are not used to the disciplines of a 3-4-3 system and neither is Doherty who does not recover his position well, in fact he is very slow to get back after going on a run.

An opposition side with fast runners and wingers can cause problems (as they would to anyone), if a flat midfield 4 is used, midfielders must have the discipline to join the attack one at a time, or ability to recover quickly. Two high midfielders would leave the team very vulnerable to counter attacks.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

Looked very sharp to me, couldn't miss for the goal but he gambled on the run for a tap in. Looks much more like his old self.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

I always said he needed a full pre season to regain his sharpness, I think he wll be back to his old self this seasoni

 

[YoungWolf]

For any 3 at the back enquiries please contact Kevin.thelwell@wolves.co.uk ...

 

[AndyWolves]

Mark McGhee did it first!

 

[Siggy]

I always said he needed a full pre season to regain his sharpness, I think he wll be back to his old self this seasoni

Lets hope so the signs are good so far!

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[slink]

So for those coaches out there, let's assume we play with a 343 against a 442 and they are on the break, how do you avoid getting overloaded down the wings if they push the full backs on and the wide forwards are high up the pitch? Centre half moves out but that leaves space for the second forward, centre midfielder moves out, but that leaves us open in the middle. It strikes me as a heavily based possession game, but the Championship is played at a different pace to the Prem.

The 2 holding midfielders are going to be vital in the formation. Because we are playing a 3-4-3 with 2 holding we should in effect always have 5 back to shift and cover in anyway that NES wants. Those 2 midfielders will have a key job if we lose the ball when both fullbacks have pushed on as they are going to have to delay by not applying pressure but ensuring opposition players dribble with the ball to allow players to recover or they are going to have to break play up by making intelligent fouls.

Doing that will allow us to get back in to a shape which will probably be 5-4-1. If only 1 wing back is caught up field then we can do as we would if both were forward or we can switch to a back four with one of the centre backs becoming a full back.

Obviously it is a possession based game but we have the players to do that now and the theory i guess will be to push back opponents so they can't double up when attacking. Like NES said it's all about us and not really about other teams we play, if we can get this style nailed down and then have a way of switching it up if it doesn't work which it isn't always going to then other teams will have to think about us more than we do about them. Imagine being a manager wanting to put us on the back foot but still having to worry about our counter when we could have Costa and Cav in the side in dangerous areas because they aren't stuck out wide.

I've got to say as a coach and someone who likes to look at tactics this season could be even better than i first thought. I don't think i've seen Wolves ever have a plan and a style that could be as good as this one, to be fair we haven't had a clear style and plan for years and when we did it wasn't very good to watch.

 

[YoungWolf]

I've got to say as a coach and someone who likes to look at tactics this season could be even better than i first thought. I don't think i've seen Wolves ever have a plan and a style that could be as good as this one, to be fair we haven't had a clear style and plan for years and when we did it wasn't very good to watch.

This is how I feel right now. Early days so I don't want to get ahead of myself but I also feel Nuno's style as very much in line with my own values which makes me more excited, as I've never really felt we've had a team (except in fleeting moments) of this type of football.

I think he seems to follow the Guardiola/Bielsa etc model of being an protagonist on the game and wanting to be in control. 5 defenders and 5 attackers almost too. The three defenders and two central midfielders can protect the middle of the pitch but also defend the counter attack.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I would say Ken had a plan for most of 2014. Possession based and it worked well most of the time.

We then went more direct when we signed Afobe (fair enough) and decided from then that we wouldn't bother with all that passing the ball shit.

 

[YoungWolf]

I would say Ken had a plan for most of 2014. Possession based and it worked well most of the time.

We then went more direct when we signed Afobe (fair enough) and decided from then that we wouldn't bother with all that passing the ball shit.

It did when we had better players than the other teams (considerably so) and I enjoyed a lot of the football under KJ but it often relied on indivual quality opening something up for us (Sako) a lot like Costa had to do for us last season. We'd build up possession to a point and luckily we had the players to create which is fair enough, but without them you are screwed, which is what also happened. And as we saw and as you mentioned KJ went a lot more direct with two forwards when Afobe arrived and then it went to pot sadly, as I did like Kenny (not the one on this forum...)

If what we think NES is trying to do is the plan, I think it is based far more on positional play and creating combinations and overloads in certain areas which doesn't rely so much on an individual conjuring something up from nowhere. It requires a good level of technical and tactical understanding from ALL of the players however, something fortunately we have now and are continuing to build upon.

 

[big mean bunny]

This is how I feel right now. Early days so I don't want to get ahead of myself but I also feel Nuno's style as very much in line with my own values which makes me more excited, as I've never really felt we've had a team (except in fleeting moments) of this type of football.

I think he seems to follow the Guardiola/Bielsa etc model of being an protagonist on the game and wanting to be in control. 5 defenders and 5 attackers almost too. The three defenders and two central midfielders can protect the middle of the pitch but also defend the counter attack.

Yeah I get what you mean and feel the same, hearing him shouting hold, to the people in possession that were nearing the typical nervy 'we've had the ball for 30 seconds I should try something direct now' was incredible.

 

[YoungWolf]

Yeah I get what you mean and feel the same, hearing him shouting hold, to the people in possession that were nearing the typical nervy 'we've had the ball for 30 seconds I should try something direct now' was incredible.

I've even just seen we are using rondos as an exercise in training so I am sold.

 

[Johnny75]

I've even just seen we are using rondos as an exercise in training so I am sold.

I had to google that and I am surprised that we haven't already done that as it should be a staple diet of training you would think (or at least I would).

 

[Lord Knows]

I've even just seen we are using rondos as an exercise in training so I am sold.

The lack of work on such technicalities catching up with Dave Edwards by the day. He must be living a nightmare.

 

[SLB]

Just watched the highlights.

-In my opinion its not the true classic 3-4-3. A 3-4-3 plays a LB and a RB and only 1 CB. Barcelona style during 90s with Koeman as CB.

-This is a hybrid of a 3-4-3 with a 4-3-3. Its very similar to what Chelsea and Dortmund use. When losing the ball the defensive transition is a typical 4-3-3 transition. The RM and LM tend to drop to the defense line (if the attack is on their side) while the other one stays up but moving totowards the centre where he acts like the third man there.

Here you can see clearly the line of 4.



If the opponent plays positional attack with slow transiton, a 5 at the back line is drawn and it seems to me its the winger of the opposite side that tries to move to the centre and become the third man. Interesting aproach:


The advantage of this formation is clearly the wings game. Its really easy to create a numbers advantage and if you play a fast and technical CF it works even better. Marega would be a good fit

Here you can see how easily 3 men are not enough to stop the swarm on the wing


Same here


Even if the opponent try to basculate and compensate with an extra midfielder, if one of the wingers joins the CF and drags defenders with him, the man behind him will be without marking.

Exemple:
This is Wolves second goal. The 4 men defense are all to much to the center allowing the RM (the man behind the right winger) to show up all alone and score.



PS: defending the wings is not where this formation is tricky. Its the risk of losing the defense depth control. Lets take wolves first goal as an exemplo. The middle CB is usually the one to carry the ball up. Sometimes, just like on that goal, the CB will have to try a higher risk pass. Now imagine roderick misses that pass and Plzen midfielder intercepts. Roderick is to up and Boly already notices the ball is going left, so he is giving width to the defense line. If, lets say, Plzen left winger makes a movement to the centre and the midfielder lobs the ball to him, the defensive depth control is lost. Boly is too far to the left to compensate Roderick. Its quite tricky.

 

[Alan]

That's a decent analysis but I confess I am at a loss as to what you're on about with the 3-4-3 involving only one CB?

 

[SLB]

That's a decent analysis but I confess I am at a loss as to what you're on about with the 3-4-3 involving only one CB?

This is a true classic 3-4-3 to me. One CB: Koeman


This is another example. Porto 2006. One CB: Pepe



Making a line of 4 or 5 at the back when the team is without ball is no 3-4-3 to me. Just my opinion.