Man City (H) 25/8 Build-Up Thread

[Johnny75]

I agree, but I guess we actually managed to get Zinchenko to agree terms (GFFH seemed to think everything was done) only for him to get cold feet at the very last minute.

That's why you should be putting pressure on Zinchenko earlier and if he doesn't commit in a time frame we have set then we move on to the next target, it wasn't like we were in for Marcelo.

We ceded power to the player in a situation we should have been in control of and that's very poor on our part. Especially as it was a position of need.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

That's why you should be putting pressure on Zinchenko earlier and if he doesn't commit in a time frame we have set then we move on to the next target, it wasn't like we were in for Marcelo.

We ceded power to the player in a situation we should have been in control of and that's very poor on our part. Especially as it was a position of need.

Tricky balance. If that's the player that the manager really wants, then we have to back him. When you're at our level it's much more difficult to have secondary targets - you have to make sure they're genuinely good enough. It's like when Locadia stiffed us - we could have gone for some bag of wank like Hugill, but what would be the point, he'd have been awful. If you're just aiming for maybe making 6th in the Championship then you can have tons of players lined up as it makes no difference either way.

There's some blame on the manager for not realising sooner that Doherty categorically was not an option in the Premier League, except maybe a "third choice on either side" emergency deal and just grateful to be there for a year. He likes Doherty, no two ways about it. We all have our cross to bear. I bought a Marion album once and they were fucking shit.

 

[Johnny75]

I can't believe for one minute that Zinchenko was the player Nuno wanted at LWB more than any other, he hardly played last season (8 times). That looks like a scouting decision to me. Any scouting team worth their salt would have at least 3 players as good as their target unless you're targeting Hazard or Messi. Even Chelsea didn't get their first choice 'keeper (Pickford if you believe the press) and so moved on swiftly.

Having said all that, Nuno may well have said that Vinagre is ready and he would wait for him and Giles to be new stars at LWB and he didn't want Zinchenko in the first place.

It's a poor decision from the team but then all managers and scouts make them (even the author of the greatest 3-5-2 book ever).

 

[Tredman]

I think Nuno probably wants to give Vini his chance, but needed Doc or Jonny to fuck up first. Now that's happened let's hope he brutal and it's bye bye Doc.

 

[Dinowolf]

I don't see why the situation with Zinchenko should have stopped us buying a RWB.

We sold Douglas whose defensive frailties were there for all to see, and brought Jonny in for 12 months as a right footed FB, who is good defensively but not as good as Douglas at getting forward. I think this has affected Jota's play and Jota will need to adapt quickly. I still feel Vinagre is one for the future, who also needs to improve his poor defensive play and positioning. He has lots of potential but IMO he isn't ready for the Prem.

I don't know enough about Dendoncker to know where he would fit into our back line, if at all, so it will be interesting to see what Nuno does moving forward.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The situation with Cancelo stopped us buying a right back. You know the one where we bid forty million and he preferred to go to Juventus.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He isn't the only RWB in the world though.

The one Leicester bought in the summer and who played against us would have been made for our system. But the manager trusted that if all else failed, we had Doc, and there were greater priorities.

Now I have no problem with Rui, but if you'd asked me on 5 May "who needs upgrading, Ruddy or Doherty", I'm sure you can guess which one I'd have picked. This weekend I've watched Neil Etheridge and Ben Hamer play Premier League football, I think we'd have been ok for a year with Big John.

 

[Dinowolf]

The situation with Cancelo stopped us buying a right back. You know the one where we bid forty million and he preferred to go to Juventus.

Would certainly have had far more effect than the Zinchenko affair. Disappointing there were no more candidates once Cancelo didn't come, or wasn't there time.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

There should have been enough time really. It became a no-go with at least a fortnight left, probably longer

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Cancelo joined Juve on 27 June, we have no excuse there.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Cancelo joined Juve on 27 June, we have no excuse there.

Very good point - Jonny was signed to play on the left as presumably Nuno is not sure on just relying on a couple of very young players for the left (however much potential they have) & even if Doherty started the first game of the season @ RWB there is still absolutely no cover for him - was clear from some time out that Zinchenko was very undecided so we should have put something in place rather than waiting till he officially declined, particularly after the Cancelo option dissapeared

 

[Boozad]

What still confuses me is why were we persisting with Zinchenko, was it definitely as a LWB? He's not a natural there which is what's bothering me a little bit, I presume if it was that Nuno believed he could make him proficient there but it just seems strange we didn't go for a natural LWB. Maybe that was what even made his mind up about us, I don't know. But if we weren't going for him as a LWB then the WB plan was to be as we are as we obviously didn't change tack following Cancelo going to Juventus.

 

[Johnny75]

Cancelo joined Juve on 27 June, we have no excuse there.

I wonder if Jonny was the 2nd alternative there. We seemed to act quite fast and given Nuno likes his width from his wingbacks it's hard to believe a right footed player would be the best signing in that position.

It's a lot of pressure on Vinagre (or Giles) but they've got to start somewhere.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I've got faith in Vinagre, I don't buy this "poor defensively" business. He's immensely talented.

We're wasting his and our time if we don't play him this season. Tim's point is silly, "we didn't trust him last season so we aren't going to trust him now". Well, that will last forever then, won't it? He's definitely good enough (from what I've seen of him for club and country). Luke Shaw became Southampton's first choice LB when he was younger than Ruben Jr. And he took over from Danny Fox...an attacking full back who was, in the right team and set up, acceptable in the Championship but absolutely 100% a liability in the Premier League.

It's not nice to have a go at an individual when they're doing as well as they can - and it isn't like he isn't trying - but it's obvious to all but the most blinkered that we've played two games so far and Doherty has looked laughably out of his depth both times. It's like chucking Danny McNamara into an opera.

 

[The Bear]

If Jonny was intended for RWB then I doubt he'd have let Douglas go so quickly.

If he was relying on Zinchenko to come in and play LWB then it was silly to let Douglas go before he'd signed.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Baz would have been on about the same level as Doc I'm afraid.

 

[Parkins left foot]

As this is a very early kickoff!! - will probably drive both ways on the same day this time

Should be up to meet anyone who is around before, but probably won't hang around much after as will still have 150 miles to go back

 

[Parkins left foot]

Baz would have been on about the same level as Doc I'm afraid.

Baz wasn't the answer on the left (whatever he achieved last year) - letting him go has no bearing on what we did/should have done for the other side

 

[YoungWolf]

I think the club think Vinagre is ready. Nuno was more than prepared to put him on against Everton. He will get plenty of games this season and sooner rather than later.

 

[Pablowolf]

As this is a very early kickoff!! - will probably drive both ways on the same day this time

Should be up to meet anyone who is around before, but probably won't hang around much after as will still have 150 miles to go back

Don't think you'll see anyone before and a few will be missing afterwards. I'll drive as well.