Leo Bonatini

[Deutsch Wolf]

Michael Owen never managed 20 league goals in a season for anyone.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

Yet another prick who thinks he's fucking funny, about as funny as toothache

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

That surprised me. I thought King John scored 20 plus goals a season on a few occasions.

Surprised me as well.
My cousin's middle name is John after King John, best striker I have seen in a gold shirt (including Bully) It's close between them but JR just shades it for me.

Be interesting to see where Leo ends up, he's on course for a stunning season, still misses too many easy ones for me, yet sticks away the real difficult chances....

Villa was a ridiculous finish, QPR, and Norwich were ridiculous misses and then sticks the hardest chance of the lot against Norwich....
really looking forward to seeing how Leo progresses, hopefully good enough to give Premier League defenders a hard time

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Surprised me as well.
My cousin's middle name is John after King John, best striker I have seen in a gold shirt (including Bully) It's close between them but JR just shades it for me.

Be interesting to see where Leo ends up, he's on course for a stunning season, still misses too many easy ones for me, yet sticks away the real difficult chances....

Villa was a ridiculous finish, QPR, and Norwich were ridiculous misses and then sticks the hardest chance of the lot against Norwich....
really looking forward to seeing how Leo progresses, hopefully good enough to give Premier League defenders a hard time

Richards scored the vast majority of his goals in the first division, whereas Bully did not play in the top division, and that is why I put Richards just above Bully.

Regarding Bonatini, his all round game is very strong, and I think he will only get better.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Surprised at such debate on this TBH. Bonatini has been an outstanding success in his short time here. Its a revelation for me to see a striker who scores and creates/ assists. Couple that with Jota and Cav and you have 18 goals and 11 assists between them by 31st October. I too am surprised at how few strikers actually manage 20 goals a season. It seems to be the mythical benchmark but when you look into it its typically less. Here is a list of our strikers returns for us
Afobe 22 43- 1 in 2
Dicko 31 94- 1 in 3
Sylvan ebanks Blake 61 177- 1 in 3
Doyle 30 164- 1 in 5
Fletcher 22 61- 1 in 3
Iwelumo 14 46- 1 in 3
Sako 36 118 -1 in 4
Kightly 23 109- 1 in 5
Miller 52 167 - 1 in 3
Cort 31 94- 1 in 3
Keogh 19 118 -1 in 6
Strurridge 28 75- 1 in 3
Steve Bull 250 474 -1 in 2


So perhaps we should reduce our expectations to 15 goals a season as the bench mark for success regardless of division?

 

[Tredman]

Personally I think total goals scored by the team is the most relevant stat - even if Bonatini had only scored 3 his worth to the team is much more than we would have got from Bod or Dicko

 

[AndyWolves]

I'd rather 3 players hit 15 than one hits 20.

That said, bonatini should get more than 20 and Jota should get to 15 I would have thought.

If I was being picky I'd want the inside right forward to be contributing more!

 

[nimrod]

Personally I think total goals scored by the team is the most relevant stat - even if Bonatini had only scored 3 his worth to the team is much more than we would have got from Bod or Dicko

yep, like we probably had 4-5 contributing 10+ each in the 50s. I'd settle for that to be honest

 

[b3h]

Personally I think total goals scored by the team is the most relevant stat - even if Bonatini had only scored 3 his worth to the team is much more than we would have got from Bod or Dicko

I expected less goals and about the same/few more assists. In his joining chat he said he wants to help the team and doesn't matter how many goals he gets.

He's gone and done both for us

 

[Dinowolf]

The Jota/Leo partnership is certainly building, derived to be 'Lota' which for goalscorers is brilliant.

So it's 15 goals in 15 matches for the Lota boys.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I know some say its a changing argument. I was brought up in n the days of your number 9 scores your goals. Supermac at Newcastle, Bob Latchford, Frank Worthington, Paul Mariner Joe Jordan, John Richards. They all seemed to be the goal scorers for their sides. Bully was ours in the late 80s and while bloody good, was not the assist number 9 Leo has been so far. In fact Bully would admit to being a bit selfish or a goal hog. And with his record why not. I just can't remember a time that we had a number 9 who scored and assisted and who has done it since his first game at the start of a season. I am ecstatic about it too. He could be some player. But so to could be Jota Cav,Costa and Neves and the key for me is the quality of the service. So far I am enjoying this year more than any in the last 30 years. We are playing better football and have better quality players than at any time in the last 30 years in my humble, if somewhat biased opinion.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I just can't remember a time that we had a number 9 who scored and assisted and who has done it since his first game at the start of a season.

Carl Cort scored 9 in 11 at the start of 05/06 #betterthanLeo

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Cool! Thanks for that. Too early for assist data though?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Leo has four assists. I may know many things but knowing off hand how many assists Carl Cort had in August/September 2005 is beyond me and I'm pretty sure that data doesn't exist going back that far for Championship players (Opta only started recording it around 2001 in the Premier League, which is why whenever they put tables up David Beckham's total seems weirdly low).

I do think you've been a little skewed by the 18 months since Afobe left, before that we normally had at least one striker doing the business, going back a very long way. I make no secret of the fact that we've been awful in that respect for a short while (in relative terms), I've even posted a list of every single striker we've had and their record going back to 1990 in the past:

1990/91 - Bull 26, Mutch 8, Taylor 2, Paskin 1
1991/92 - Bull 20, Mutch 10
1992/93 - Bull 16, Mutch 9, Roberts 5, Bradbury 2
1993/94 - Bull 14, Kelly 11, Whittingham 8, Regis 2, Mills 1, Small 1
1994/95 - Bull 16, Kelly 15, Goodman 3, Stewart 2, Mills 1
1995/96 - Goodman 16, Bull 15, Crowe 1
1996/97 - Bull 23, Roberts 12, Goodman 6, Foley 1
1997/98 - Keane 11, Freedman 10, Goodman 8, Bull 7
1998/99 - Keane 11, Connolly 6, Flo 5, Bull 3, Foley 2, Whittingham 1
1999/00 - Akinbiyi 16, Branch 6, Flo 4, Keane 2
2000/01 - Proudlock 8, Ndah 6, Branch 4, Ketsbaia 3
2001/02 - Sturridge 21, Blake 11, Proudlock 3, Roussel 2, Miller 2, Ndah 1
2002/03 - Miller 19, Blake 12, Sturridge 10, Ndah 7, Proudlock 2, Cole 1
2003/04 - Camara 7, Cort 5, Iversen 4, Ganea 3, Miller 2, Blake 1
2004/05 - Miller 19, Cort 15, Clarke 7, Sturridge 1
2005/06 - Cort 11, Miller 10, Ganea 4, Aliadiere 2, Ndah 1, Clarke 1
2006/07 - Bothroyd 9, Clarke 5, Keogh 5, Johnson 3, Ward 3
2007/08 - Ebanks-Blake 12, Keogh 8, Elliott 4, Bothroyd 3, Eastwood 3, Kyle 1
2008/09 - Ebanks-Blake 25, Iwelumo 14, Vokes 6, Keogh 5
2009/10 - Doyle 9, Ebanks-Blake 2, Keogh 1, Maierhofer 1
2010/11 - Fletcher 10, Ebanks-Blake 7, Doyle 5
2011/12 - Fletcher 12, Doyle 4, Ebanks-Blake 1
2012/13 - Ebanks-Blake 14, Doyle 9, Sigurdarson 5, Dicko 1
2013/14 - Griffiths 12, Dicko 12, Doyle 3, Sigurdarson 2, McAlinden 1, Clarke 1
2014/15 - Dicko 14, Afobe 13, Clarke 2, Graham 1
2015/16 - Afobe 9, Mason 3, Zyro 3, Le Fondre 3
2016/17 - Bodvarsson 3, Mason 3, Dicko 3, Weimann 2
2017/18 - Bonatini 9

Leo is pretty much the only dedicated centre forward we have other than Donovan Wilson so I won't include Jota/Bright/Cav in that list.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Leo has four assists. I may know many things but knowing off hand how many assists Carl Cort had in August/September 2005 is beyond me and I'm pretty sure that data doesn't exist going back that far for Championship players (Opta only started recording it around 2001 in the Premier League, which is why whenever they put tables up David Beckham's total seems weirdly low).

I do think you've been a little skewed by the 18 months since Afobe left, before that we normally had at least one striker doing the business, going back a very long way. I make no secret of the fact that we've been awful in that respect for a short while (in relative terms), I've even posted a list of every single striker we've had and their record going back to 1990 in the past:

1990/91 - Bull 26, Mutch 8, Taylor 2, Paskin 1
1991/92 - Bull 20, Mutch 10
1992/93 - Bull 16, Mutch 9, Roberts 5, Bradbury 2
1993/94 - Bull 14, Kelly 11, Whittingham 8, Regis 2, Mills 1, Small 1
1994/95 - Bull 16, Kelly 15, Goodman 3, Stewart 2, Mills 1
1995/96 - Goodman 16, Bull 15, Crowe 1
1996/97 - Bull 23, Roberts 12, Goodman 6, Foley 1
1997/98 - Keane 11, Freedman 10, Goodman 8, Bull 7
1998/99 - Keane 11, Connolly 6, Flo 5, Bull 3, Foley 2, Whittingham 1
1999/00 - Akinbiyi 16, Branch 6, Flo 4, Keane 2
2000/01 - Proudlock 8, Ndah 6, Branch 4, Ketsbaia 3
2001/02 - Sturridge 21, Blake 11, Proudlock 3, Roussel 2, Miller 2, Ndah 1
2002/03 - Miller 19, Blake 12, Sturridge 10, Ndah 7, Proudlock 2, Cole 1
2003/04 - Camara 7, Cort 5, Iversen 4, Ganea 3, Miller 2, Blake 1
2004/05 - Miller 19, Cort 15, Clarke 7, Sturridge 1
2005/06 - Cort 11, Miller 10, Ganea 4, Aliadiere 2, Ndah 1, Clarke 1
2006/07 - Bothroyd 9, Clarke 5, Keogh 5, Johnson 3, Ward 3
2007/08 - Ebanks-Blake 12, Keogh 8, Elliott 4, Bothroyd 3, Eastwood 3, Kyle 1
2008/09 - Ebanks-Blake 25, Iwelumo 14, Vokes 6, Keogh 5
2009/10 - Doyle 9, Ebanks-Blake 2, Keogh 1, Maierhofer 1
2010/11 - Fletcher 10, Ebanks-Blake 7, Doyle 5
2011/12 - Fletcher 12, Doyle 4, Ebanks-Blake 1
2012/13 - Ebanks-Blake 14, Doyle 9, Sigurdarson 5, Dicko 1
2013/14 - Griffiths 12, Dicko 12, Doyle 3, Sigurdarson 2, McAlinden 1, Clarke 1
2014/15 - Dicko 14, Afobe 13, Clarke 2, Graham 1
2015/16 - Afobe 9, Mason 3, Zyro 3, Le Fondre 3
2016/17 - Bodvarsson 3, Mason 3, Dicko 3, Weimann 2
2017/18 - Bonatini 9

Leo is pretty much the only dedicated centre forward we have other than Donovan Wilson so I won't include Jota/Bright/Cav in that list.

Not trying to create a theory here lol. Hypothetically a successful striker scores or should score one in three. That's 15 in a 46 game season. Barring injury our main top scorer has hit 15 once since 2004. OK 2 other come close but I still think our lead strikers have not excelled for a long time. Leo is excelling. And its early days. Cort scored 9 in 11 games from the start of the season but only added 2 more giving him 11 in 24 games and 7 sub appearances. Back to 1 in 3

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Mitigating circumstances come into it with the state of the team, the style of play etc plus you can't always assume someone's playing an uninterrupted full season (and four of those seasons are 38 game campaigns in any case), Fletcher's 12 in 32 in 2011/12 was exceptional given how truly rubbish and out of our depth we were. SEB was better than 1 in 3 too in our awful 2012/13 team with 14 in 40.

Jermain Defoe's record in the last couple of years with Sunderland was good rather than great just going on raw figures, when you factor in how shite Sunderland are then you wonder how he got as many as he did.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Mitigating circumstances come into it with the state of the team, the style of play etc plus you can't always assume someone's playing an uninterrupted full season (and four of those seasons are 38 game campaigns in any case), Fletcher's 12 in 32 in 2011/12 was exceptional given how truly rubbish and out of our depth we were. SEB was better than 1 in 3 too in our awful 2012/13 team with 14 in 40.

Jermain Defoe's record in the last couple of years with Sunderland was good rather than great just going on raw figures, when you factor in how $#@!e Sunderland are then you wonder how he got as many as he did.

Yep all that I get. I just threw away the line that strikers scoring goals here recently was a rarity. I still think that Leo has been exceptional so far. I also still think its nice.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd say over the last 30 years we've broadly been spoiled for goalkeepers and strikers. Other than Paul Jones' second spell (which didn't even last a year) we didn't have a bad regular keeper until Ikeme lost form in 2015 (proper shite for the next two years) and it's been rare that we've had a season where we've had no good forward whatsoever (recently yes, but then there were other seasons as you can see above where we had three or even four good options).

Full backs have been a recurring issue for us - and we've hit a nadir in recent times, whatever anyone thinks about Doherty, there is no way that a right footed right back should have been our undisputed first choice left back for 18 fucking months - and we went through much of the 90s without any central midfield at all.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I'd say over the last 30 years we've broadly been spoiled for goalkeepers and strikers. We didn't have a bad regular keeper until Ikeme lost form in 2015 (proper $#@!e for the next two years) and it's been rare that we've had a season where we've had no good forward whatsoever (recently yes, but then there were other seasons as you can see above where we had three or even four good options).

Full backs have been a recurring issue for us - and we've hit a nadir in recent times, whatever anyone thinks about Doherty, there is no way that a right footed right back should have been our undisputed first choice left back for 18 $#@!ing months - and we went through much of the 90s without any central midfield at all.

But we now open a whole new debate that starts with round pegs round holes, then finishes with styles to suit the squad. I would suggest that Mick was good at a style to suiut the squad he had and, though limited, made the team play to its limited strengths. Nuno has changed the style, put round pegs in round holes and some players have done significantly better than expected. I am shocked at how pleasant on the eye this new brand of football is. It can be top quality.

 

[AndyWolves]

Leo has four assists. I may know many things but knowing off hand how many assists Carl Cort had in August/September 2005 is beyond me and I'm pretty sure that data doesn't exist going back that far for Championship players (Opta only started recording it around 2001 in the Premier League, which is why whenever they put tables up David Beckham's total seems weirdly low).

I do think you've been a little skewed by the 18 months since Afobe left, before that we normally had at least one striker doing the business, going back a very long way. I make no secret of the fact that we've been awful in that respect for a short while (in relative terms), I've even posted a list of every single striker we've had and their record going back to 1990 in the past:

1990/91 - Bull 26, Mutch 8, Taylor 2, Paskin 1
1991/92 - Bull 20, Mutch 10
1992/93 - Bull 16, Mutch 9, Roberts 5, Bradbury 2
1993/94 - Bull 14, Kelly 11, Whittingham 8, Regis 2, Mills 1, Small 1
1994/95 - Bull 16, Kelly 15, Goodman 3, Stewart 2, Mills 1
1995/96 - Goodman 16, Bull 15, Crowe 1
1996/97 - Bull 23, Roberts 12, Goodman 6, Foley 1
1997/98 - Keane 11, Freedman 10, Goodman 8, Bull 7
1998/99 - Keane 11, Connolly 6, Flo 5, Bull 3, Foley 2, Whittingham 1
1999/00 - Akinbiyi 16, Branch 6, Flo 4, Keane 2
2000/01 - Proudlock 8, Ndah 6, Branch 4, Ketsbaia 3
2001/02 - Sturridge 21, Blake 11, Proudlock 3, Roussel 2, Miller 2, Ndah 1
2002/03 - Miller 19, Blake 12, Sturridge 10, Ndah 7, Proudlock 2, Cole 1
2003/04 - Camara 7, Cort 5, Iversen 4, Ganea 3, Miller 2, Blake 1
2004/05 - Miller 19, Cort 15, Clarke 7, Sturridge 1
2005/06 - Cort 11, Miller 10, Ganea 4, Aliadiere 2, Ndah 1, Clarke 1
2006/07 - Bothroyd 9, Clarke 5, Keogh 5, Johnson 3, Ward 3
2007/08 - Ebanks-Blake 12, Keogh 8, Elliott 4, Bothroyd 3, Eastwood 3, Kyle 1
2008/09 - Ebanks-Blake 25, Iwelumo 14, Vokes 6, Keogh 5
2009/10 - Doyle 9, Ebanks-Blake 2, Keogh 1, Maierhofer 1
2010/11 - Fletcher 10, Ebanks-Blake 7, Doyle 5
2011/12 - Fletcher 12, Doyle 4, Ebanks-Blake 1
2012/13 - Ebanks-Blake 14, Doyle 9, Sigurdarson 5, Dicko 1
2013/14 - Griffiths 12, Dicko 12, Doyle 3, Sigurdarson 2, McAlinden 1, Clarke 1
2014/15 - Dicko 14, Afobe 13, Clarke 2, Graham 1
2015/16 - Afobe 9, Mason 3, Zyro 3, Le Fondre 3
2016/17 - Bodvarsson 3, Mason 3, Dicko 3, Weimann 2
2017/18 - Bonatini 9

Leo is pretty much the only dedicated centre forward we have other than Donovan Wilson so I won't include Jota/Bright/Cav in that list.

I also wonder if this is the reason we used to have cries of "Gerrit forward" whenever we tried to play football was because when we did lump it we've had a strong forward up front or certainly someone who can do something with a ball lumped up to them.