Giro d'Italia / Tour de France

[Paddingtonwolf]

The first tour I watched (at 6pm highlights on channel four) was Roche v Pedro Delgado in 1987. 26 years I have had the passion for this race. Can't help it!

 

[Tredman]

Judging by twitter and some of the comments from team bosses everyone, bar the English, think froome is being illegally assisted.

Whether true or false it's equally depressing.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It happens all the time. BORING

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Plus, as holder of the maillot jaune he is tested every night, plus will get an extra test as stage winner today. All these people testing the times with Armstong up certain climbs need their bumps felt. Armstrong has done the Ventoux miles faster than Froome today. It is fucking dull to hear this shite again and again and fucking again.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I suppose the acid test is this (and I don't know enough about the sport to give an answer) - Wiggins and Froome are part of the same team, Wiggins won it last year and is clean, almost everyone I've heard respects that, the team boss is the boss of the Great Britain cycling team, no-one questions their credibility. If Wiggins and Froome had a genuine fight for the Tour, given the same equipment/support, would it be a close contest? If the answer is yes (like I say - I don't know), then you have to conclude that the whispers about Froome are merely bellyaching.

 

[Toon Wolf]

I suppose the acid test is this (and I don't know enough about the sport to give an answer) - Wiggins and Froome are part of the same team, Wiggins won it last year and is clean, almost everyone I've heard respects that, the team boss is the boss of the Great Britain cycling team, no-one questions their credibility. If Wiggins and Froome had a genuine fight for the Tour, given the same equipment/support, would it be a close contest? If the answer is yes (like I say - I don't know), then you have to conclude that the whispers about Froome are merely bellyaching.

Froome was a legit candidate to win last year but Sky had too much invested in Wiggo as the team leader to undermine him. Froome was always going to be their man this year, and is justifiably seizing his opportunity.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Another thing to remember is that it actually turned out to be not as hot on the ventoux this year as when Armstrong and Pantani shot up it. Bikes are also lighter than 12-15 years ago. But, hey ho, it must be drugs.

Like I say, fucking boring

 

[Johnny75]

And extremely sour grapes Paddy. Nobody's accused Quintana have they?

 

[nimrod]

awesome ride from froome today. the acceleration he can get going up those climbs is incredible.

personally i don't agree that the drugs questioning is boring or sour grapes. it's been part of cycling since i don't know when. in fact over the years i've found it interesting to have read about the individual pursuit of those determined to bring the truth to light. it may seem unfair that any good performance is going to get labelled but i'm afraid that is cycling today and if riders don't like it they'd better find a different career. any rider who's doing what froome is doing both in TTs and over the most difficult of climbs would experience the same. on some cycling forums there are huge threads devoted to certain riders of which froome is one, and that's before his recent rides. i'm sure from his perspective he'll take it as a compliment on his performances.

 

[Johnny75]

So because he's good he's guilty? Seems an odd way to look at things doesn't it?

 

[nimrod]

So because he's good he's guilty? Seems an odd way to look at things doesn't it?

who's said he's guilty and how would they know?

the questioning comes with the territory unfortunately. what's happening is certainly not odd if you've checked out any cycling forum over the years. it's absolutely standard.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

So because he's good he's guilty? Seems an odd way to look at things doesn't it?

But why is he good? What he did today and last Saturday were exceptional, there is nothing wring with being exceptional, Usain Bolt is, but he was exceptional when he was 14years old.

Questions are being asked about Froome because of the facts.

He wasn't outstanding as a junior or an amateur and didn't turn professional until he was 22. In his first tour in 2008 he finished 84th, he now excels in two disciplines climbing and time trials, in that first tour he finished 11minutes behind the winner in the Alpe D'Huez stage and 3 minutes behind the winner in the final time trial.
2009 he finished 36th in the Giro
2010 he signed a contract with Sky
2010 he got disqualified in the Giro for hanging onto the back of a motorcycle going up the side of a mountain.
end of 2010 he was in limbo as Sky hadn't renewed his contract.

Question is, how from the end of 2010 does a journeyman cyclist convicted of cheating turn within 18 months (as Toon said he had Wiggins number last year) into a potential tour winner?

The reason given is that he suffered from a waterborne parasite Bilhazia which held him back, now they have gotten on top of it and that is why he improved. No doubt he had Bilhazia but how much you would improve after being treated? how long did he have it? are questions that cant be answered one way or the other.

You cant compare him to Quintana today, Quintana attacked before the bunch had reached full speed, a standard manourve. Froome had the speed turned up to max, then found an additional gear. The last person to do that on the tour was good old Lance.

I hope he is genuine and he is winning because the tour is now cleaner, but as I watched it the first thing that came into my head was that this is not normal.

 

[Tredman]

But why is he good? What he did today and last Saturday were exceptional, there is nothing wring with being exceptional, Usain Bolt is, but he was exceptional when he was 14years old.

Questions are being asked about Froome because of the facts.

He wasn't outstanding as a junior or an amateur and didn't turn professional until he was 22. In his first tour in 2008 he finished 84th, he now excels in two disciplines climbing and time trials, in that first tour he finished 11minutes behind the winner in the Alpe D'Huez stage and 3 minutes behind the winner in the final time trial.
2009 he finished 36th in the Giro
2010 he signed a contract with Sky
2010 he got disqualified in the Giro for hanging onto the back of a motorcycle going up the side of a mountain.
end of 2010 he was in limbo as Sky hadn't renewed his contract.

Question is, how from the end of 2010 does a journeyman cyclist convicted of cheating turn within 18 months (as Toon said he had Wiggins number last year) into a potential tour winner?

The reason given is that he suffered from a waterborne parasite Bilhazia which held him back, now they have gotten on top of it and that is why he improved. No doubt he had Bilhazia but how much you would improve after being treated? how long did he have it? are questions that cant be answered one way or the other.

You cant compare him to Quintana today, Quintana attacked before the bunch had reached full speed, a standard manourve. Froome had the speed turned up to max, then found an additional gear. The last person to do that on the tour was good old Lance.

I hope he is genuine and he is winning because the tour is now cleaner, but as I watched it the first thing that came into my head was that this is not normal.

My wife had chronic bilharzia - it can make a real mess of a person.

Essentially all your internal organs are compromised as your body's response to the parasite damages your organs.

Chronic fatigue and lack of energy are one of the many symptoms.

Once you have taken the 'cure' the bilharzia is completely wiped out and the effects can be completely reversed.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

He has to live with it. The sour grapes is the fact that the main complaint is coming from Spanish and Italian sources. Froome finished nearly two minutes ahead of Contador so this must be a BAD thing. End of the day, old Alberto before the dodgy steak would have been a lot closer. Perhaps he has found his clean level and it just isn't as good.

Sky have a very clear policy on drugs. Nobody on that team can be doping or can have ever doped unless they are lying to the team directly.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

Sky have a very clear policy on drugs. Nobody on that team can be doping or can have ever doped unless they are lying to the team directly.

I don't suspect Sky of anything and no-one knows how clean the tour is this year but team policies mean nothing. Gerolsteiner took a a very similar stance and look how that turned out.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

He has to live with it. The sour grapes is the fact that the main complaint is coming from Spanish and Italian sources. Froome finished nearly two minutes ahead of Contador so this must be a BAD thing. End of the day, old Alberto before the dodgy steak would have been a lot closer. Perhaps he has found his clean level and it just isn't as good.

Sky have a very clear policy on drugs. Nobody on that team can be doping or can have ever doped unless they are lying to the team directly.

It was good to see Contador eat dust.

Team Sky's propaganda division (also known as SSN) tell us constantly about this policy but it is a lot harder to operate in real life when people fib.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hayman-refuses-to-discuss-geert-leinders
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...at-cycling-can-regain-full-trust-of-fans.html

 

[FootballFan]

Apparently Froome speaks French and it is worth it to write a whole article about it in The New York Times... Wonderful.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Another solid ride by Froome today, although the slight mistake by Contador that almost took them both out on the final descent indicates beautifully why no lead is a certainty just yet.

 

[Wombat del combate]

I still want to punch him.

 

[Knockout Ned]

Just checking in, had a great day on the Col du Manse today, hope you all enjoyed the racing as much as we did...Tommy V was a star trying to hold on to Costa!

Rode a stunning 70 mile loop over the Col d'Izoard yesterday, Telegraphe and Galibier on the menu for tomorrow...very beautiful out here, smitten