Coronavirus

[Tredman]

It’s becoming more and more obvious that we are by far and away the worst affected country in Europe - this despite us having more warning and time to prepare than pretty much any other country.

I’m honestly a bit stumped as to why people are not more angry. We are literally having our vulnerable people killed due to incompetence by our government.

 

[Tony Towner]

It’s becoming more and more obvious that we are by far and away the worst affected country in Europe - this despite us having more warning and time to prepare than pretty much any other country.

I’m honestly a bit stumped as to why people are not more angry. We are literally having our vulnerable people killed due to incompetence by our government.

I won't be able to find it on my phone, but as I posted last week I subscribe to the James O'Brien theory that believing this Government is a lying, incompetent mess then means you have to start challenging what else you've been lied to on.

Brexit has become the way in which a lot of people identify themselves now, they can't allow this to be challenged. Johnson is a Pied Piper figure who can't be criticised. they refuse to believe data, make videos about Johnson as Austin Powers, call Morgan and Andrew Neil out for being unpatriotic, claim Bill Gates is killing millions in India and Africa, the vac will have GPS in it, Covid was developed in a lab, burn down 5g masts, compare it to the flu etc etc etc. If pubs were open I'm sure that's what average Joe would be taking about, not the incompetence.

The media are complicit in this using Johnson's illness, baby and shagging scientist to fill their front pages rather than challenging the Government on the horror.

 

[Tredman]

I won't be able to find it on my phone, but as I posted last week I subscribe to the James O'Brien theory that believing this Government is a lying, incompetent mess then means you have to start challenging what else you've been lied to on.

Brexit has become the way in which a lot of people identify themselves now, they can't allow this to be challenged. Johnson is a Pied Piper figure who can't be criticised. they refuse to believe data, make videos about Johnson as Austin Powers, call Morgan and Andrew Neil out for being unpatriotic, claim Bill Gates is killing millions in India and Africa, the vac will have GPS in it, Covid was developed in a lab, burn down 5g masts, compare it to the flu etc etc etc. If pubs were open I'm sure that's what average Joe would be taking about, not the incompetence.

The media are complicit in this using Johnson's illness, baby and shagging scientist to fill their front pages rather than challenging the Government on the horror.

I get that, and Piers Morgan (urgh) posted something recently about how people identify themselves only by being Brexiters.

But really, truly how are people able to ignore what’s happening? I genuinely don’t get it, how can you not be angry that people are dying at such a rate.

This is really interesting - shows that Italy were able to lock down and contain the virus and prevent other regions being as badly affected as the north:

Compare that with the UK and you see the clear affect of our piss poor initial lock down

 

[Tony Towner]

I get that, and Piers Morgan (urgh) posted something recently about how people identify themselves only by being Brexiters.

But really, truly how are people able to ignore what’s happening? I genuinely don’t get it, how can you not be angry that people are dying at such a rate.

This is really interesting - shows that Italy were able to lock down and contain the virus and prevent other regions being as badly affected as the north:

Compare that with the UK and you see the clear affect of our piss poor initial lock down

Getting 1/4m people from all around UK and Ireland together across 4 days and them then returning to their own parts of the UK potentially infected doesn't help with a containment strategy.

I'm supposed to be going to Sorento in August they have only had a relative few cases there because of the lockdown preventing travel across regions. Ironically the reason I'm unlikely to go is they aren't going to be accepting visitors from the biggest hit country in Europe

 

[Tredman]

Getting 1/4m people from all around UK and Ireland together across 4 days and them then returning to their own parts of the UK potentially infected doesn't help with a containment strategy.

I'm supposed to be going to Sorento in August they have only had a relative few cases there because of the lockdown preventing travel across regions. Ironically the reason I'm unlikely to go is they aren't going to be accepting visitors from the biggest hit country in Europe

We have a road trip holiday booked through 8 or 9 European counties. Can’t imagine we will be welcome.

More worryingly my job relies on me being able to travel, I think I need to reconsider my career sadly.

That’s all by the by though, I really just do not get why people are happy to accept their relatives dying due to government incompetence. Or donating to the NHS as if it’s some charity. We should be angry and want better.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

By the way, remember that PPE we ordered from Turkey? We can't use it as it's shit. Stuck in a warehouse.

Hurrah!

 

[Paul]

"I get that, and Piers Morgan (urgh) posted something recently about how people identify themselves only by being Brexiters.

But really, truly how are people able to ignore what’s happening? I genuinely don’t get it, how can you not be angry that people are dying at such a rate."

I love it how Piers Morgan is now considered a go to source by so many on here

Towards the start of this you brought up the statistics stating "Daily UK deaths from Covid-19 are projected to peak at 2,932 on 17 April", you and several others were quite dismissive when these figures were questioned as "all Government and big business policy is dictated by statistics ", how can you now be appalled at the current figures, you were expecting three times higher ? I don't understand you.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Okay ...

Vaccine months off and still no sign of a reliable antibody test.

An abundance of experts in the SAGE group supplemented by hordes wheeled out by the media inducing various degress of panic and hysteria. Add to this a shadow group of experts that appears to be lead by one of Blair's mates. The silver fox Starmer the judge and jury of hindsight and opportunity. Hancock looks like he wants to turn into the hulk - looking very stressed and Ferguson jumps ship because he can't keep his trousers on.

So big choice IS either go back to work or continue to furlough. The Unions want health and safety guarentees or their members will refuse to work.

It's impossible to socially distance on public transport and the two metre rule will be difficult to implement bearing in mind you had to tell the public to cough and sneeze into tissues and wash their hands. Also please don't share pens. People don't want to share lifts, no chatting at the photocopiers and there has to be regimented visits to the toilets and staggered breaks in canteens. Don't mention schools ...

It isn't go to work is it? Only solution continue lockdown and continue paying 80% of salaries until a vaccine is available. Don't worry the essential workers can still deliver the BBQ's and the clothes people can't even wear outside. How many jobs is this going to take and how many resultant repossessions? What will be the cost in mental health treatment, in domestic abuse and a plethora of other issues? You've also got the flu season later in the year which annually kills 10K in the UK.

Yes, I think it's fair to say the UK is well and truly fucked over a virus that causes mild or no symptoms in 80% of people. The middle classes will be given tax hikes like never before. Austerity will be a walk in the park compared to the shit-storm that will hitting very very soon.

Non-health and social care settings
For other workers and sectors, based on current evidence, there is very little scientific evidence of widespread benefit from PPE. Instead, practising good hand hygiene and social distancing is key to minimising the risk of infection. We emphasise and reassure employers that for the majority the most effective way they can ensure that their employees are safe at work is to:

where possible, alter business-as-usual ways of working to ensure social distancing can take place. In some circumstances this could involve the erection of physical ‘splash barriers’ to decrease staff anxiety, or redesign of customer flows to minimise contact opportunities
ensure staff are aware and signs are visible in the workplace reminding employees and customers not to enter the premises if they have COVID-19 symptoms such as a high temperature or persistent cough (or a member of their household displays symptoms) and to avoid touching their eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands

that employees are provided with regular breaks to allow them to wash their hands for 20 seconds. Break areas and break times should also be set up to allow for social distancing to occur to minimise contact during these times

 

[Rui_CostCo]

It’s becoming more and more obvious that we are by far and away the worst affected country in Europe - this despite us having more warning and time to prepare than pretty much any other country.
I’m honestly a bit stumped as to why people are not more angry. We are literally having our vulnerable people killed due to incompetence by our government.

People didn't want to hear the truth

 

[Tony Towner]

We have a road trip holiday booked through 8 or 9 European counties. Can’t imagine we will be welcome.

More worryingly my job relies on me being able to travel, I think I need to reconsider my career sadly.

That’s all by the by though, I really just do not get why people are happy to accept their relatives dying due to government incompetence.

Because we are a fundamentally selfish nation. Most people either won't know anyone who has died or it's a casual acquaintance who they take a moment to think about, say that's sad and move on. Let's say that there are 10 people per person who has died who are genuinely moved by that person passing on, that's circa 300k, less than 1/2% of the population. More people will be bothered that the pubs are closed.

 

[Tredman]

"I get that, and Piers Morgan (urgh) posted something recently about how people identify themselves only by being Brexiters.

But really, truly how are people able to ignore what’s happening? I genuinely don’t get it, how can you not be angry that people are dying at such a rate."

I love it how Piers Morgan is now considered a go to source by so many on here

Towards the start of this you brought up the statistics stating "Daily UK deaths from Covid-19 are projected to peak at 2,932 on 17 April", you and several others were quite dismissive when these figures were questioned as "all Government and big business policy is dictated by statistics ", how can you now be appalled at the current figures, you were expecting three times higher ? I don't understand you.

I assume you meant to quote me? I’m not quite sure what the gist of your post is, but modelling is used to determine mitigating strategies. Statistics is usually looking at what has happened, I think you might be confusing two different insights.

Giving yourself a high 5 and having a cold beer because 250,000 haven’t died is not really a measure of success. Scenario modelling is generally used to work out how you can do better than is projected, you then test your performance against comparators - which is where we are now.

Alternatively, if you meant that I am dismissive of modelling and stats, err no. My job is literally evangelism on the benefits from AI and data science.

Genuine question Paul, and no malice intended at all, are you happy with the government performance?

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Getting 1/4m people from all around UK and Ireland together across 4 days and them then returning to their own parts of the UK potentially infected doesn't help with a containment strategy.

I'm supposed to be going to Sorento in August they have only had a relative few cases there because of the lockdown preventing travel across regions. Ironically the reason I'm unlikely to go is they aren't going to be accepting visitors from the biggest hit country in Europe

It's not like we had a way of classifying it that should have meant mass gatherings of that nature between the 10th and 13th March should have been stopped without a second thought

 

[Rui_CostCo]

"I get that, and Piers Morgan (urgh) posted something recently about how people identify themselves only by being Brexiters.

But really, truly how are people able to ignore what’s happening? I genuinely don’t get it, how can you not be angry that people are dying at such a rate."

I love it how Piers Morgan is now considered a go to source by so many on here

Towards the start of this you brought up the statistics stating "Daily UK deaths from Covid-19 are projected to peak at 2,932 on 17 April", you and several others were quite dismissive when these figures were questioned as "all Government and big business policy is dictated by statistics ", how can you now be appalled at the current figures, you were expecting three times higher ? I don't understand you.

Deny the undeniable, Justify the unjustifiable, defend the indefensible and just delete what you you'd rather people didn't read afterwards

 

[Tredman]

Because we are a fundamentally selfish nation. Most people either won't know anyone who has died or it's a casual acquaintance who they take a moment to think about, say that's sad and move on. Let's say that there are 10 people per person who has died who are genuinely moved by that person passing on, that's circa 300k, less than 1/2% of the population. More people will be bothered that the pubs are closed.

I’m not sure that is correct, there was a study recently (I cba to find it, so may be quoting slightly incorrectly) which said we are the country most concerned about passing on Coronavirus. I certainly don’t think we are any more selfish, in general, the the Italians, french or Spanish.

I think it’s more a cultural acceptance of deference and expecting a posh bloke to know better than we do.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Move to Hampshire for a while

 

[Tony Towner]

I’m not sure that is correct, there was a study recently (I cba to find it, so may be quoting slightly incorrectly) which said we are the country most concerned about passing on Coronavirus. I certainly don’t think we are any more selfish, in general, the the Italians, french or Spanish.

I think it’s more a cultural acceptance of deference and expecting a posh bloke to know better than we do.

Maybe you are correct and I don't doubt your comment re concerns on passing it on because by and large that would be to people we care about. Perhaps I am conflating this with the country's decisions at the ballet box over the last few years, which have been very much 'I'm alright Jack'

 

[arklowolf]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_SlbV4cZjQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[Paul]

I assume you meant to quote me? I’m not quite sure what the gist of your post is, but modelling is used to determine mitigating strategies. Statistics is usually looking at what has happened, I think you might be confusing two different insights.

Giving yourself a high 5 and having a cold beer because 250,000 haven’t died is not really a measure of success. Scenario modelling is generally used to work out how you can do better than is projected, you then test your performance against comparators - which is where we are now.

Alternatively, if you meant that I am dismissive of modelling and stats, err no. My job is literally evangelism on the benefits from AI and data science.

Genuine question Paul, and no malice intended at all, are you happy with the government performance?

Sorry mate totally ballsed up that one, no and please don't think I'm casting aspersions on your field of expertise but the question still stands, you were expecting it to be bad, it is bad, and you're shocked. even though it wasn't as bad as you thought it was going to be ? (and theres no high 5 involved at all)

And genuine answer, no I'm not happy with the governments performance, I think there has been a flippancy to the obvious and a catalogue of errors, I don't think anything has been done with malicious intent that is for people to think that just want to call Boris a cunt. There are things I don't understand, like I still don't know why it's the governments job to procure all the PPE. that was never the case before was it (or perhaps I'm wrong), I don't understand why the infected figure is still climbing at such a rate when we've been on lockdown for what seems like forever.
And i know this is sacrilege and I will probably get sent to hell for it but why do we not question the NHS procedures and methods with the death toll so high ?

 

[Paul]

Deny the undeniable, Justify the unjustifiable, defend the indefensible and just delete what you you'd rather people didn't read afterwards

You're enjoying all this aren't you ? Did you know you've posted 200 posts more than anyone else on this thread (It's actually 194 but no doubt you've got a fucking graph on it )

I don't know why i should find myself answerable to you ?

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Sorry mate totally ballsed up that one, no and please don't think I'm casting aspersions on your field of expertise but the question still stands, you were expecting it to be bad, it is bad, and you're shocked. even though it wasn't as bad as you thought it was going to be ? (and theres no high 5 involved at all)

And genuine answer, no I'm not happy with the governments performance, I think there has been a flippancy to the obvious and a catalogue of errors, I don't think anything has been done with malicious intent that is for people to think that just want to call Boris a cunt. There are things I don't understand, like I still don't know why it's the governments job to procure all the PPE. that was never the case before was it (or perhaps I'm wrong), I don't understand why the infected figure is still climbing at such a rate when we've been on lockdown for what seems like forever.
And i know this is sacrilege and I will probably get sent to hell for it but why do we not question the NHS procedures and methods with the death toll so high ?

letter-to-procurement-leads-centralising-procurement-of-ppe-other-supplies-1-may-2020

"The global demand for PPE and other supplies is unprecedented. Therefore, it is vital that the UK Government procures items nationally, rather than individual NHS organisations compete with each other for the same supplies, to protect the health of NHS staff and patients across the whole country"