Coronavirus

[Rui_CostCo]

So now, journalists and opposition parties agree we should save difficult questions until later. This seems fair, because it’s always best to wait until a crisis is finished, when there’s nothing you can do about it, before you ask why nothing’s being done about it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...rs-ppe-nhs-government-tom-moore-a9468826.html

That final paragraph probably echoes the thoughts of many. I think on reflection, Starmer is right, now is not the time to be apportioning blame. But there does need to be some kind of oversight of the Governments actions to ensure as few mistakes are made going forward that will cost lives, and to address the mistakes that have been made so far to ensure they are not repeated again. Once the dust settles, that will be the time to hold inquiries and to hold people to account for their actions. NOw is the time ro save as many lives as possible.

On the journalist front, I still think at the briefings they're fighting with one hand tied behind their back due to legally binding restrictions that are in place

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Do you have a link to that article about all age groups being affected the same in terms of severity?

yeah, i'll dig it out, gimme a few minutes

 

[AndyWolves]

That final paragraph probably echoes the thoughts of many. I think on reflection, Starmer is right, now is not the time to be apportioning blame. But there does need to be some kind of oversight of the Governments actions to ensure as few mistakes are made going forward that will cost lives, and to address the mistakes that have been made so far to ensure they are not repeated again. Once the dust settles, that will be the time to hold inquiries and to hold people to account for their actions. NOw is the time ro save as many lives as possible.

On the journalist front, I still think at the briefings they're fighting with one hand tied behind their back due to legally binding restrictions that are in place

I agree, have you seen the govt risk assessments? It's not like no one called out that a pandemic was both likely and impactful

 

[AndyWolves]

In other news, I don't think football will be THAT far away now. The restrictions around broadcasting at 3.00pm on a Saturday have been lifted and the PL have said they'd need to test players before playing and that wouldn't happen until test kits were widely available.

I've already found two places selling them online :-

https://www.better2know.co.uk/shop/products/home-testing-kits/covid-19-test

https://www.citydoc.org.uk/covid-19-home-testing-kit/

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Do you have a link to that article about all age groups being affected the same in terms of severity?

Here you go. This the paragraph

"One of the biggest unanswered questions is why some develop severe disease, whilst others do not. Clearly, the conventional wisdom based on overall immunity of the infected patients cannot explain this broad spectrum in disease presentation."

Article in Nature, paragraph 2

Study it refers to

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Those 11 days..



https://www.newstatesman.com/2020/0...-tragically-cost-uk-fight-against-coronavirus

 

[AndyWolves]

Here you go. This the paragraph

"One of the biggest unanswered questions is why some develop severe disease, whilst others do not. Clearly, the conventional wisdom based on overall immunity of the infected patients cannot explain this broad spectrum in disease presentation."

Article in Nature, paragraph 2

Study it refers to

I'm still dubious about the 15% of all ages groups are affected the same in terms of severity.

I think the key is in the word confirmed cases, I'd imagine there are far more confirmed cases (I.e. severe enough to warrant testing) for over 65s & vulnerable groups than under 65s less vulnerable groups.

There still appears to be a correlation to high BMI which could indicate a link to more general "poor health" and consequently a poorer condition immune system...maybe, I don't know

 

[Templeton Peck]

Not sure football will be happening soon. September at the earliest I reckon.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

I'm still dubious about the 15% of all ages groups are affected the same in terms of severity.

I think the key is in the word confirmed cases, I'd imagine there are far more confirmed cases (I.e. severe enough to warrant testing) for over 65s & vulnerable groups than under 65s less vulnerable groups.

There still appears to be a correlation to high BMI which could indicate a link to more general "poor health" and consequently a poorer condition immune system...maybe, I don't know

I did say it wasn't a huge sample, and would "describe the results of our analysis of the clinical characteristics of Covid-19 in a selected cohort of patients throughout China."
It's all from peer reviewed studies. The Clinical Characteristics of Coronavirus Disease 2019 in China, study 1 says that

The median age of the patients was 47 years (interquartile range, 35 to 58); 0.9% of the patients were younger than 15 years of age
Severe illness occurred in 15.7% of the patients after admission to a hospital

For all the bulk bog roll buyers, Diarrhea was an uncommon symptom(3.8%).

 

[Tredman]

The sorry tale of our non-existent new ventilators. Great work from the FT

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1251434219139665920?s=21

 

[AndyWolves]

I did say it wasn't a huge sample, and would "describe the results of our analysis of the clinical characteristics of Covid-19 in a selected cohort of patients throughout China."
It's all from peer reviewed studies. The Clinical Characteristics of Coronavirus Disease 2019 in China, study 1 says that

The median age of the patients was 47 years (interquartile range, 35 to 58); 0.9% of the patients were younger than 15 years of age
Severe illness occurred in 15.7% of the patients after admission to a hospital

For all the bulk bog roll buyers, Diarrhea was an uncommon symptom(3.8%).

The results table is illuminating,

15-49 get severe symptoms at about 1 in 10
50-64 get severe symptoms at about 1 in 6
65 and over at about 1 in 3

 

[Johnny75]

The sorry tale of our non-existent new ventilators. Great work from the FT

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1251434219139665920?s=21

It may have been a muddle to start with and the author is cobbling together 'insider' (made up opinions) of people in Industry. His assertion that we have no way of manufacturing is wrong from the start.

The author sets a condescending and whining note from the start and then begrudgingly admits that the order for 10,000 ventilators and CPAP machines has already been made and manufacture is underway with 100 machines already delivered.

It's whining drivel like this that pisses me off. Do these fucking arseholes of journalists know how hard it is to get a machines running from scratch? (That's a rhetorical question, the author's an arsehole looking for clicks. Cunt)

 

[AndyWolves]

The sorry tale of our non-existent new ventilators. Great work from the FT

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1251434219139665920?s=21

It seems obvious to build existing, approved ventilators. God knows what the govt was thinking here

 

[Rui_CostCo]

The results table is illuminating,

15-49 get severe symptoms at about 1 in 10
50-64 get severe symptoms at about 1 in 6
65 and over at about 1 in 3

I think the common perception would be though

15-49 get severe symptoms at about 1 in 100
50-64 get severe symptoms at about 1 in 3
65 and over at about 1 in 2 (if not all)

 

[Tredman]

It may have been a muddle to start with and the author is cobbling together 'insider' (made up opinions) of people in Industry. His assertion that we have no way of manufacturing is wrong from the start.

The author sets a condescending and whining note from the start and then begrudgingly admits that the order for 10,000 ventilators and CPAP machines has already been made and manufacture is underway with 100 mavhines already delivered.

It's whining drivel like this that pisses me off. Do these fucking arseholes of journalists know how hard it is to get a mavhines running from scratch? (That's a rhetorical question, the author's an arsehole looking for clicks. Cunt)

He’s clearly not a ‘cunt looking for clicks’ as 1. He writes for the FT which doesn’t have ads and is usually behind a paywall and 2. They have literally opened the paywall to allow free reading for the public good. With no ads.

Why not take it up with him directly? He’s public policy editor for the foremost financial newspaper in the world. I’m sure he’d welcome a debate, though perhaps not being called a cunt.

 

[Johnny75]

It seems obvious to build existing, approved ventilators. God knows what the govt was thinking here

That's down to the scientists and components available. The scientists wanted better ventilators from the start and the component supply chains were in China in the main and that was shut down at the time.

 

[Johnny75]

He’s clearly not a ‘cunt looking for clicks’ as 1. He writes for the FT which doesn’t have ads and is usually behind a paywall and 2. They have literally opened the paywall to allow free reading for the public good. With no ads.

Why not take it up with him directly? He’s public policy editor for the foremost financial newspaper in the world. I’m sure he’d welcome a debate, though perhaps not being called a cunt.

A bad journalist quotes 'insiders' when they make things up. I notice how you haven't debated the article and calling it 'top work' is flat out wrong.

Listing a publication is no proof of quality, Tom Newton Dunn started work at the Telegraph and he's a fucking arsehole.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

It seems obvious to build existing, approved ventilators. God knows what the govt was thinking here

Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you recover from that's important. I don't think anyone holds a patent on that though, it's something anyone can do, and no one can accept all the profits from it

 

[Tredman]

A bad journalist quotes 'insiders' when they make things up. I notice how you haven't debated the article and calling it 'top work' is flat out wrong.

To be honest I can’t really add much more than the article and it says it more coherently than I could.

The interesting part is, as it says, all of the novel designs will basically fall by the wayside and the only ventilators likely to delivered and used are those from an existing design. Which is exactly what we should have focused on in the first place.

 

[Johnny75]

To be honest I can’t really add much more than the article and it says it more coherently than I could.

The interesting part is, as it says, all of the novel designs will basically fall by the wayside and the only ventilators likely to delivered and used are those from an existing design. Which is exactly what we should have focused on in the first place.

You and I must be reading different articles as that's not what it says at all:

However, an insider with direct knowledge of the process said that the basic products are now unlikely to be cleared for use in the UK against Covid-19.

Just to clarify, that's the basic designs that the scientists put in the spec from an original 1961 design. They are now wrong and it is 1 of the more sophisticated updated and novel designs that have gone to manufacture (Airbus, McLaren consortium model).

Making to the old spec was not possible as we didn't have the parts, if any ventilators were made to this spec they wouldn't need approval.

The CPAP model was reverse engineered and then redesigned for improvements too, as per the article you put up a few days ago.

Edit: To add, the government have made clear mistakes during the pandemic and not admitting them is plain silly. The constant slating of the government for not having ventilators is silly. We are not even at capacity.

Italy needed ventilators and the Germans refused to help them as they were 'counting them'. That's a scandal.