Coronavirus

[Tredman]

Nearly a 1000 people will probably die today from Coronavirus, but it’s going to be a really ‘good’ Friday apparently

 

[AndyWolves]

Until they have evaluated and can present a reliable antibody test it's all pie in the sky. Until that time people need to be self responsible and heed the advice.

If the German antibody test is reliable then produce as much of it as possible and test the fuck out of everybody to get people back to work before it's too late. As it stands, protect those who are vulnerable and if idiots have an obsessive need to hang around supermarkets more than they should be or have house parties then it's their look-out. Keep the vulnerable as isolated as possible, get food to them etc and pour all resources into that rather than attempting to baby sit the idiots.

It's not as if people have not been made aware of the reasons why they should be social distancing but you just wonder how many of these clappers had earlier been nipping out to get non essential items for the weekend barbie and piss up or made more than one journey instead one.

I'd argue that hospital admissions and hospital capacity are the most important metrics. The result of widespread antibody testing would let you know how the population is doing as a whole but not overwhelming the nhs has to be the priority.

And let's not forgot how one acquires antibodies in the first place

 

[Tony Towner]

If Boris was anyone other than Boris he wouldn't have 'been in' in the first place

 

[Jabbawolf]

If Boris was anyone other than Boris he wouldn't have 'been in' in the first place

Careful, or the pious posse will jump on you for this kind of statement.

 

[Johnny75]

Careful, or the pious posse will jump on you for this kind of statement.

Classy.

 

[Tredman]

This is a drop in the ocean compared to all those 1000s of Dyson ventilators which are piling up everywhere as they zoom off the production line, but good to see our European allies are helping

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs

 

[The Bear]

If Boris was anyone other than Boris he wouldn't have 'been in' in the first place

Yeah they just put him in intensive care for a laugh.

 

[Tony Towner]

Yeah they just put him in intensive care for a laugh.

No, they put him in intensive care unit because he is the the Prime Minister. I don't have an issue with it, I understand the caution, but if he wasn't who he was that wouldn't have happened. It's not a political or anti Johnson point, just reality.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Is there now an acceptance then that a quarter of a million people is a fair price to pay for getting everyone back to work? I find that a little shocking.

By that thinking, we should have done nothing, carried on as normal and let 500,000 people die, crush the NHS and then rebuild it after because it would cost a bit less and poor old Richard Branson wouldn't have lost a few 100 million from his 4 billion net worth. Apart from the fact he gained 100 million yesterday sitting on his private island where he spent the day virtue signalling that Virgin Airways was now supporting the NHS by flying equipment round the world for them and didn't actually lose anything at all. Not bad for a company on its knees and in need of a quarter of a million taxpayers pounds. Bailout incoming.

My conscience cannot accept that it's fine to sit by and let 250,000, around 8 Molineux full of people die under any circumstance.

My conscience will not allow me to listen to and accept the opinions of people who both put forward the argument that the cost of saving hundreds of thousands of lives is too great whilst also having the most to gain from allowing that many to die.

My conscience will not allow me to wilfully ignore independent economists and scientists with nothing to gain, who feel it is their moral obligation to publicise that there ARE alternatives and those numbers of people do not have to die. That there are ways of getting the population out of lockdown and back to work, but there is an unwillingness to choose them instead of a mass culling of the proles.

Everybody has to act according to their own conscience and set of beliefs, but in my experience, most people find it easy to talk about sacrificing 100,000, 200,000, 250,000 strangers but will point blank refuse to say they'd put a gun to their all their wife's, children's, parent's, grandparent's, grandchildren's,nieces and nephews heads and pull the trigger themselves if it meant the whole world could go back to work tomorrow, with no risk at all, and life would go back to normal for 8 billion people, exactly as it was before.

Everyone's a Nazi till it's their Jewish Uncle getting carted off to the gas chamber.

 

[Paul]

Rui, where are these figures from ?

" a mass culling of the proles. " conspiracy theory to the max !

 

[AndyWolves]

Is there now an acceptance then that a quarter of a million people is a fair price to pay for getting everyone back to work? I find that a little shocking.

By that thinking, we should have done nothing, carried on as normal and let 500,000 people die, crush the NHS and then rebuild it after because it would cost a bit less and poor old Richard Branson wouldn't have lost a few 100 million from his 4 billion net worth. Apart from the fact he gained 100 million yesterday sitting on his private island where he spent the day virtue signalling that Virgin Airways was now supporting the NHS by flying equipment round the world for them and didn't actually lose anything at all. Not bad for a company on its knees and in need of a quarter of a million taxpayers pounds. Bailout incoming.

My conscience cannot accept that it's fine to sit by and let 250,000, around 8 Molineux full of people die under any circumstance.

My conscience will not allow me to listen to and accept the opinions of people who both put forward the argument that the cost of saving hundreds of thousands of lives is too great whilst also having the most to gain from allowing that many to die.

My conscience will not allow me to wilfully ignore independent economists and scientists with nothing to gain, who feel it is their moral obligation to publicise that there ARE alternatives and those numbers of people do not have to die. That there are ways of getting the population out of lockdown and back to work, but there is an unwillingness to choose them instead of a mass culling of the proles.

Everybody has to act according to their own conscience and set of beliefs, but in my experience, most people find it easy to talk about sacrificing 100,000, 200,000, 250,000 strangers but will point blank refuse to say they'd put a gun to their all their wife's, children's, parent's, grandparent's, grandchildren's,nieces and nephews heads and pull the trigger themselves if it meant the whole world could go back to work tomorrow, with no risk at all, and life would go back to normal for 8 billion people, exactly as it was before.

Everyone's a Nazi till it's their Jewish Uncle getting carted off to the gas chamber.

The data from Germany showed a CFR of 0 4%, how do propose to change that?

People will die as a result of this, the question is when

 

[Aikiwolf]

@Rui_CostCo Will you please stop crying about Virgin Atlantic? It's not in a financially healthy position and it's my wife's livelihood that's in jeopardy. Everyone is already aware of your thoughts on Branson and Virgin Atlantic.

No one wants people to die but there has to be some awareness that there isn't a solution to avoid any deaths at all.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

Rui, where are these figures from ?
" a mass culling of the proles. " conspiracy theory to the max !

The data from Germany showed a CFR of 0 4%, how do propose to change that?
People will die as a result of this, the question is when

I don't particularly like the approach but it's the only one with a realistic logical conclusion. How else do we end this?
I got my numbers wrong, I thought 27,000 would die but it's more likely to be 250,000 - 270,000 if it's a CFR of 0.4-0.5

Yep, but at some point people are going to contract this virus and 0.4% of them are going to die. Why draw it out for longer than it needs to be? Even with apps and contact tracing people will get the virus eventually

You might have missed it, one of the worlds most respected journalists gave a monologue the other night

"This is a health issue with huge ramifications for social welfare, and it's a welfare issue with huge ramifications for public health."
"Those serving on the frontline right now — bus drivers and shelf stackers, nurses, care home workers, hospital staff and shopkeepers are disproportionately the lower paid members of our workforce,"
"They are more likely to catch the disease because they are more exposed."
It is a widely accepted view and I don't think she's talking about the middle and upper classes. The poorer sections of society are the ones most likely to die particularly in fuck it, they're going to die anyway thinking and scenarios. i.e the proletariat.

conspiracy theory to the max !

 

[Rui_CostCo]

@Rui_CostCo Will you please stop crying about Virgin Atlantic? It's not in a financially healthy position and it's my wife's livelihood that's in jeopardy. Everyone is already aware of your thoughts on Branson and Virgin Atlantic.
No one wants people to die but there has to be some awareness that there isn't a solution to avoid any deaths at all.

No, but there are options that will keep deaths to a minimum and there are options that won't. Anyone with a conscience should take the former.

I have friends that are aircrew, they're suffering too. Many businesses are not in a healthy position, what's the difference between a tax exiles company that's not in a healthy financial position and a small business that's not in a healthy financial position other than the fact that one may be deemed worth pumping hundreds of millions of tax payers pounds into it to save it and the other being perceived as not being worth saving as its bad business model being run by someone lacking in business acumen? Whichever opinion you have, the same should be applied to both.

 

[AndyWolves]

You might have missed it, one of the worlds most respected journalists gave a monologue the other night

"This is a health issue with huge ramifications for social welfare, and it's a welfare issue with huge ramifications for public health."
"Those serving on the frontline right now — bus drivers and shelf stackers, nurses, care home workers, hospital staff and shopkeepers are disproportionately the lower paid members of our workforce,"
"They are more likely to catch the disease because they are more exposed."
It is a widely accepted view and I don't think she's talking about the middle and upper classes. The poorer seections of society are the ones most likely to die particularly in fuck it, they're going to die anyway thinking and scenarios.

I agree with every word and we should do everything we can to save lives. The point is though, 0.4% of people who get this virus will die and I don't know how we can change that.

Lockdown until a vaccine just isn't possible, 12-18 months and ending up in the mother of all recessions which will hit the poor the hardest and undoubtedly shorten life spans. Public spending will shrink as a result of the recession and to pay for what we've done so far.

We can't suddenly stop people from dying from this virus

 

[Paul]

@Rui_CostCo Will you please stop crying about Virgin Atlantic? It's not in a financially healthy position and it's my wife's livelihood that's in jeopardy. Everyone is already aware of your thoughts on Branson and Virgin Atlantic.

It does seem to be the go to guy for a certain section of people, there's half a dozen or so people wealthier than him who must be so glad he's around to take the brunt.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

If you spend your life self publicising spending your wealth on vanity projects like breaking world records and building spaceships then hold your hand out for 250million quid whilst sitting on 4 billion you get what you deserve.

On the day Branson asked for 250 million quid from the tax payer his personal wealth rose by 500 million

 

[Aikiwolf]

It does seem to be the go to guy for a certain section of people, there's half a dozen or so people wealthier than him who must be so glad he's around to take the brunt.

It's easier than to have a go at a single and famous person instead of nebulous corporation such as one behind BA, who were planning to make 30,000 people redundant until they were found out by the press.

For the record, I'm not stating Virgin were right in their initial reaction but they were trying to take steps to keep their business afloat and have jobs for people to return to post Covid19 (whatever and whenever that will be).

 

[Tredman]

Much like most of the ‘virgin’ companies Branson is very much a minority share holder of Virgin Atlantic, yes he’s a twat but it’s not particularly good to glory in people losing their jobs.

Edit - my bad, seems he didn’t actually sell the 30% to KLM as planned. Seems like you get to glory away Rui.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

I agree with every word and we should do everything we can to save lives. The point is though, 0.4% of people who get this virus will die and I don't know how we can change that.

Lockdown until a vaccine just isn't possible, 12-18 months and ending up in the mother of all recessions which will hit the poor the hardest and undoubtedly shorten life spans. Public spending will shrink as a result of the recession and to pay for what we've done so far.

We can't suddenly stop people from dying from this virus

No but there are options that independent scientist and economists are urging those in power to consider, but like you, they're just pretending they don't exist. Lowest economic effect with most lives saved is only not the best option if you don't care who or how many people die as long as its the cheapest way, which I think is an incredibly callous viewpoint and as I said, is almost always changed when the person holding it is asked to sacrifice their own family to achieve it.
exit strategy options for lifting lockdown measures in uk

I don't really understand why you're unwilling to accept or even consider Ian Mulheirn's view unless it's because he works at The Tony Blair Institute which would be a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater