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Coronavirus

I can't help but think that this is wishful thinking, unless a far stricter lockdown is put into place. Boozad said yesterday, planning for a potential 12000 body mortuary is staggering, and has to be a severe wake up call. I will be amazed if the 6000 figure is met. I fear that 12000 will not be enough.

Read this morning of warnings of a stricter lockdown in 2 weeks, for some people in society i cant see anything but looting starting to happen...
It will literally become steal to survive in some cases.
 
mrs jelly went to the shops this morning to fetch milk and a few other essentials (mainly fruit). She reported a lot less social distancing than the last time she went out a week ago. The way some people were behaving were, to use her words, frightening.

She's concerned, as one of her daughters has been in touch saying she has symptoms.

I've also just watched the postman go down the other side of the street - I've found I am spending a lot of time staring out the window. Repeatedly, he was knocking on doors to hand over the mail. At first, I was gobsmacked at how much this meant he could be exposing himself to risk/contamination. However he then went to 5 more houses, and knocked, and no-one answered. He popped the deliveries in their bins and put a note through the door. However, where the fuck are these people? They're supposed to be at home.

My lad Ste is a postie and up here they are under strict instruction to not hand any mail over to a person. Post it or leave it safe and put a card through the door...It's just bloody basic, common sense
 

This seems similar to Neil Fergusons work who is a Director of the Abdul Latif Jameel Institute for Disease and Emergency Analytics, Head of the Department of Infectious Disease Epidemiology in the School of Public Health and Vice-Dean for Academic Development in the Faculty of Medicine, all at Imperial College, London.

He was widely quoted as saying his latest modelling predicted 6000 deaths. He also scared the willies out of Dominic Cummings by predicting there could be 500,000 deaths. In his report, he gave several scenario's, 3 i think. THe first that was latched onto was armageddon, half a million people die. That was where we did nothing. Carried on as normal and let it rip through society. The last was if every isolation/distancing measure was put in place and worked perfectly and every restriction was observed by everyone we could restrict it to 6000.

The real answer lies somewhere between the two. 500,000 - 6000 is a pretty big variance in anyones book. The data that is encouraging the view that it could be as low as 6000 includes that from countries who acted far quicker and took far more draconian actions than we have so far and where quarantine/Isolation/distancing has been observed far more rigidly .

'Our work shows that social distancing is working against Covid-19 as an effective parachute across multiple countries," Prof Tom Pike of Imperial College London told The Times.

I think the media would be serving us far better by informing people IF you do what we ask IF we keep it up and IF EVERYONE plays their part this is what we could achieve rather than headlines such as 'Britain on course for 5,700 deaths, new Imperial modelling shows'

'
 
Also.. Im seeing/reading ebay sellers being lambasted for still flogging stuff and putting pressure on the Royal Mail.
I had a load of stuff up for sale on eBay. I cancelled all the listings before they ended and got a warning from eBay I might have to still pay final seller fees.
 
My lad Ste is a postie and up here they are under strict instruction to not hand any mail over to a person. Post it or leave it safe and put a card through the door...It's just bloody basic, common sense

My wife is a postie and she is doing the same, if the one LJ had been seen doing that he’d probably get in quite deep shit. They’re all supposed to be wearing gloves too.

People are being dicks though, one of her colleagues in hednesford was attacked in his van earlier this week.
 
I can't help but think that this is wishful thinking, unless a far stricter lockdown is put into place. Boozad said yesterday, planning for a potential 12000 body mortuary is staggering, and has to be a severe wake up call. I will be amazed if the 6000 figure is met. I fear that 12000 will not be enough.

If I remember rightly the mortuary will start with a capacity of 1,500 but can be scaled up to 12,000 if required.

No problem at all with planning for worst case scenarios - it would be stupid not to given we're learning every day
 
' The trouble with you <insert Political/Social/Sexual/Racial jibe /insert> isn't going add an awful lot to the discussion. Particularly if you insist on the type of behaviour being highlighted. Picking and choosing what to read and answer.

Someone requested that the thread not be politicised, which I have tried not to , and don't think I have. Facts is facts. The people currently leading the nations struggle against a global pandemic should, and quite rightly are being held up to scrutiny, it is their actions that are being closely looked at, not the party they represent.

'Which part of that doesn't your socialist mind understand?'. certainly IS politicising it and trying to create a flame war.

It's you're right to disagree with my opinion, but could you at least try and retain a little civility. I think the matters at stake, saving human lives, are slightly more important than defending political allegiances.

I don’t think I’ve ever said this before - but Johnny is right in what he said.
 
I don’t think I’ve ever said this before - but Johnny is right in what he said.

So is Rui though...

You cant spend 10 years destroying the NHS and then, because of a disaster the likes of which none of us have seen before, they start patting themselves on the back for opening some emergency hospitals with new beds. What do they want? A Blue Peter badge??

The absolute cheek of them having that "Protect The NHS" placard in front of them too
 
So is Rui though...

You cant spend 10 years destroying the NHS and then, because of a disaster the likes of which none of us have seen before, they start patting themselves on the back for opening some emergency hospitals with new beds. What do they want? A Blue Peter badge??

The absolute cheek of them having that "Protect The NHS" placard in front of them too

Absolutely.
 
I'm going to make a bold prediction, we'll have premier league games behind closed doors before the end of may
 
This is Fergusons report

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

that shows, if we implimented a supression strategy (which we have) and implimented these policy options what the effect might be. The definitions of what each of these policies mean is at the bottom, it's worth paying attention with the assumed percentage rates of success/compliance o see if you think these are bing achieved. I've given the bestcase/worst case numbers, there are a wide range of factors that have an effect on both, and also the effect on the NHS.

case isolation + home quarantine + social distancing + school/university closure that could equate to as few as 5,600 total deaths in a 2 year period.

school/university closure + case isolation + social distancing could equate to as few as 6,400 total deaths in a 2 year period.

case isolation + home quarantine + social distancing could equate to as few as 47,000 total deaths in a 2 year period.

Doing nothing at all could see as few as a total of 410,000 lives being lost.

At the other end of the scale, at worst, these figures could equate to 48,000 , 71,000, 120,000 and 550,000 lives being lost respectively.

The original Mitigation strategy was thrown out because Ferguson found

' the resulting mitigated epidemic would still likely result in hundreds of thousands of deaths and health systems (most notably intensive care units) being overwhelmed many times over. For countries able to achieve it, this leaves suppression as the preferred policy option.'
He noted that
'The major challenge of suppression is that this type of intensive intervention package – or something equivalently effective at reducing transmission – will need to be maintained until a vaccine becomes available (potentially 18 months or more) – given that we predict that transmission will quickly rebound if interventions are relaxed. We show that intermittent social distancing –
triggered by trends in disease surveillance – may allow interventions to be relaxed temporarily in relative short time windows, but measures will need to be reintroduced if or when case numbers rebound. Last, while experience in China and now South Korea show that suppression is possible in the short term, it remains to be seen whether it is possible long-term, and whether the social and economic costs of the interventions adopted thus far can be reduced.'

THese are these definitions of the policy options we have also implimented the last one now, locking up the elderly

Case isolation in the home
Symptomatic cases stay at home for 7 days, reducing nonhousehold contacts by 75% for this period. Household contacts remain unchanged. Assume 70% of household comply with the policy.
Voluntary home quarantine
Following identification of a symptomatic case in the household, all household members remain at home for 14 days. Household contact rates double during this quarantine period, contacts in the community reduce by 75%. Assume 50% of household comply with the policy.
Social distancing of entire population
All households reduce contact outside household, school or workplace by 75%. School contact rates unchanged, workplace contact rates reduced by 25%. Household contact rates assumed to increase by 25%.
Closure of schools and universities
Closure of all schools, 25% of universities remain open. Household contact rates for student families increase by 50% during closure. Contacts in the community increase by 25% during closure.
Social distancing of those over 70 years of age
Reduce contacts by 50% in workplaces, increase household contacts by 25% and reduce other contacts by 75%. Assume 75% compliance with policy.


If you can get through the paper, I'd recomend reading it. Some of it's a bit heavy going, but it's worth the effort
 
If I remember rightly the mortuary will start with a capacity of 1,500 but can be scaled up to 12,000 if required.

No problem at all with planning for worst case scenarios - it would be stupid not to given we're learning every day

Given the numbers in Italy and Spain lately I think they’re planning for the worst as that’s the most likely outcome. Thousands of people are still working and while from what I’ve seen social distancing is being respected for the most part there is still plenty of opportunity for this thing to spread. Workers, people not giving a fuck about social distancing, front line healthcare workers... we’ve slowed this thing down but it’s far from stopped completely.
 
Given the numbers in Italy and Spain lately I think they’re planning for the worst as that’s the most likely outcome. Thousands of people are still working and while from what I’ve seen social distancing is being respected for the most part there is still plenty of opportunity for this thing to spread. Workers, people not giving a fuck about social distancing, front line healthcare workers... we’ve slowed this thing down but it’s far from stopped completely.

Rui's post above shows non compliance is built into the model. As long as those non compliance assumptions are near we won't be far off
 
Africa is taking this self-isolating seriously
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A lot of our efforts, and the assumptions behind the science that's driving them relies on exactly this situation not happening
 
Given the numbers in Italy and Spain lately I think they’re planning for the worst as that’s the most likely outcome. Thousands of people are still working and while from what I’ve seen social distancing is being respected for the most part there is still plenty of opportunity for this thing to spread. Workers, people not giving a fuck about social distancing, front line healthcare workers... we’ve slowed this thing down but it’s far from stopped completely.

There will be a second wave as there is with all viruses. The first wave suppression allows us to have enough ventilators, beds and mortuary spaces for the second wave and to prepare ourselves for the number of tests needed.

Built up cities and repeated exposure to the virus (the opposite of herd immunity) are now targeted as the main points to avoid.

This is only the first wave they think the second wave will hit in October/ November.
 
So is Rui though...

You cant spend 10 years destroying the NHS and then, because of a disaster the likes of which none of us have seen before, they start patting themselves on the back for opening some emergency hospitals with new beds. What do they want? A Blue Peter badge??

The absolute cheek of them having that "Protect The NHS" placard in front of them too

So nothing about the tests then?

Seems to me a lot of folks need to take their red specs off. It does seem socialists attack the government at every opportunity for the sake of it without realising what they are typing is tosh or even thinking about it.

Twitter is the same at the moment. That's not to say you should believe everything you see by the way, which is usually the next thing in the red handbook.
 
So nothing about the tests then?

Seems to me a lot of folks need to take their red specs off. It does seem socialists attack the government at every opportunity for the sake of it without realising what they are typing is tosh or even thinking about it.

Twitter is the same at the moment. That's not to say you should believe everything you see by the way, which is usually the next thing in the red handbook.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a socialist, sometimes they just might not think you are correct.
 
Not everyone who disagrees with you is a socialist, sometimes they just might not think you are correct.

In this case it is very clear they are socialist. EP and Darlo are as red as you get.

Most of the time not as PQ will happily attest to.
 
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