BHA 0 - Wolves 1 The highway robbery verdict thread

[Papper]

The problem exacerbates if KJ thinks all of us this is viable or at least progressive. It isn't. I'm not convinced he actually does and to be fair to him he has stopped the rot. It's sensible given the abject attempts at defending we have flittered in and out for as long as I can remember. For me, the additions of Williamson and Zyro are not progressive, they just make us a steady club that may flirt with the play offs. It rubber stamps my belief that the whole footballing set up is well below what is required or expected and far from value from money. We need a clean flush of the club. As far as I am concerned the whole footballing set up has failed miserably in it's remit.

 

[Papper]

Not seen the past three games but based on what I've read and the two sides of the fence that seem to have sprung up, I'll say this:

$#@! football, losing football, pretty football, and winning football are not things that automatically coincide one another. Tony Pulis has teams play $#@! football, but it's winning football. The kind of defensive organization that makes narrow victories feel purposeful rather than lucky.

KJ, at the moment, seems to have us playing $#@! football and losing football. Yes, we've kept three clean sheets and taken nine points. But the prevailing feeling seems to be that we're lucky rather than good (or even decent). Luck is not a sustainable tactic.

Lucky football is losing football over the long run. Yes, short term it can be better to be lucky than good, but over time the quality of a team and its tactics will always shake out.

We simply cannot continue playing this way.

We are defending well as a unit. It may look backs to the wall but they are actually very well organised - especially Edwards and Coady.The massive problem is an inability to switch to fluid attacking football or even attempt to get the football on the floor and pass and move.

 

[Jamwolf]

Good win, but why do we have to defend so deep ? And why not another striker up front to keep Afobe company ? Jackett has probably taken 5 mil off Afobe's transfer value by leaving him alone upfront. Pity, because unlike Doyle, he could actually score goals.

 

[darlowolf64]

If we sign Williamson we immediately become more solid at the back (as long as he maintains the form from when he was on loan) so we can hopefully add him to DWs team, above

 

[Jabbawolf]

A good exciting home team, not to sure away from home though. Obviously a few of those players aren't fit at the moment. Would you have Edwards on the bench? Do you think that Wallace has anything to offer?

I don't understand this thing about home and away - why set up away differently to at home - why not try to approach both with an attacking formation and mentality?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I don't understand this thing about home and away - why set up away differently to at home - why not try to approach both with an attacking formation and mentality?

Its about expectation. Can you imagine a home game where Brighton have 66% of the possession and 3 or 4 times the attempts while we try and get 10 behind the ball? The boos would start after 10 minutes. KJ loves the system and it does do a job at times AWAY from home. At home it does not work. Teams are happy to sit further back. Our home form is the problem for us this year. Its pants

 

[Deleted Cyber]

From what we have now - and I won't include Zyro as I've never seen him play, nor anyone who's been injured long term (I would play Martinez and Hause if available, but they aren't):

--------------------Ikeme--------------------

Iorfa-------Batth------Ebanks-Landell--------Golbourne

Byrne------McDonald------Price-------------Graham

-------------Afobe--------Le Fondre-------------------

It's not just personnel though, it's mindset and approach where Ken and I differ this year. Especially in home games.

Exactly. Williamson for EEL , Zyro on the bench to start with, Martinez in Goal and Hause at Left back when fit.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Logged off early yesterday as was getting tired of it & could see the way the 'discussion' was likely to go.

Am very happy with the points return & in essence the change was probably necessary to stop what could have become a more permanent set of results with us dropping to the bottom.

However, it is not a sustainable way of playing (I won't repeat the argument between results & entertainment - though the two are not mutually exclusive in any event) and if we continue in this vein then we will lose far more than we win at which time we will be moaning about the lack of points as well as the football being served up. If I was a BHA fan I would be pissed off that my team got nothing from that game - yes in the main we restricted them, but they had at least 3 decent chances and should have scored.

I just hope that Kenny is using it merely as a stabilising factor and will allow a bit more freedom from now on otherwise it will be an even more unsuccessful and dispiriting season than it has been so far.

I will restrict the number of games I come to if it does purely because the cost of my travel will need more than this to entice me

 

[Johnny75]

I don't understand this thing about home and away - why set up away differently to at home - why not try to approach both with an attacking formation and mentality?

I agree with you it really shouldn't but there is a tonne of data to suggest that it is indeed different.

 

[Lycan]

Getting pretty fed up of being told how to support my football team on here.

Watching Wolves set up with a flat back four and three defensive midfielders away to a bang average BHA team who had won 3 in 12 before this game (including 5 without a win and 2 losses in a row) was downright depressing. I took very little enjoyment from this victory. The players should be proud of their effort and determination but nothing else. As for KJ, I sincerely hope that that's the last time we set up like that. We're now into the transfer window and have a significant cushion between ourselves and the relegation zone, it's time to play with some freedom and start trying to win games on our own merits rather than through the failings of our opposition. I'm going to the Fulham game in midweek and I fully expect to see several 'new' faces and a new attitude, if that's the case then the last week will have been worth it.

I've just watched last nights joyless win back and while I agree that we defended well in the terms of working hard and putting our bodies on the line, I thought the actual defensive organisation and pattern of play was dreadful. Chris Hughton should be very worried about his teams inability to break Wolves down last night, any team with a hint of style or flair would've created chance after chance against us but there weren't actually that many openings. Their game plan didn't seem to extend much beyond giving the ball to Kayal or Wilson and hoping they'd do something special. This wasn't a defensive masterclass from Wolves, we stymied BHA through sheer weight of numbers, the physical size of our back 4, hard work and a hell of a lot of luck. So many times the ball went out wide to a BHA winger/full back and despite having the entire team in our own half nobody went to close him down. Similarly, every time the ball was knocked into the box our entire back 4 seemed to be rooted inside our own 6 yard box with a host of BHA players queueing up at the back post. We were incredibly lucky that they didn't manage to get one ball of genuine quality into the box in 90 minutes.

Ikeme - 8 MOTM - His kicking is atrocious. We don't even contest half of his long kicks, I can't work out what's going through his head when he's hoofing the ball for the 20th time in a row. What does he hope to achieve? With the negatives out of the way, easily our MOTM and we can chalk up 2 extra points thanks to him in my opinion. 2 excellent saves, including the header at the end which was world class, controlled his area well all night and was smart enough to waste time when he could. Keeper going down with cramp, classic.

Iorfa - 6 - Won some good headers and I can't remember many chances coming from him (apart from when he fell on his arse and let the ball bounce in the area). Was a willing runner going forward but never really got in the right positions and was hesitant in possession. I thought Murphy gave him an unnecessarily tough game today and there are some basic errors creeping back into his game. I'd rest him for the cup game and have him ready to go against Fulham.

Batth - 6 - Considering the aerial bombardment we had at times during that game he won surprisingly few headers. I thought the defensive line was all over the shop which falls on him but equally he should be praised for motivating those around him to dig in and win the 3 points.

EEL - 8 - Make no mistake, he hasn't suddenly turned into a good footballer. This is the equivalent of Roger Johnson being touted for the England squad because he had Barry Ferguson, Lee Bowyer & Lee Carsley sat in front of him for 90 minutes. The whole point of that formation last night was to limit the number of times inferior players like EEL & Doherty were being isolated 1v1 against their attacker. The one time he was isolated he got burned by Wilson but then did well to track back and make a goal saving tackle. Fair play to the kid though, he headed and hoofed away everything that came near him. Every time BHA put in their shocking deliveries it was EEL rising above everyone else to head away. Absolutely in his element last night & can't begrudge him his Sky MOTM award.

Doherty - 5 - For 75 minutes he was the worst player on the pitch by a country mile. The first 15 minutes were an absolute bomb scare. Watching it back again I lost count of the amount of times Crofts and Bruno just drifted past him as if he wasn't there, Doherty inevitably turning his back and sticking his heel out blindly in the penalty area. For a team that defended with 7 men pretty much camped on the edge of our own box for the whole game there was an extraordinary amount of space down our left hand side. The moment in the first half where he stood over a virtually unmoving ball for a full 3 seconds trying to shepherd it out of play only for a BHA player to nick it away sums him up as a footballer. Once Brighton had given up any pretence of trying to break us down and had resorted to just lamping it in the box (after they took off Zamora funnily enough) he won a few important headers. He stepped in front of a wayward pass towards the end and broke which was decent play (and the sort of thing he was doing with regularity at Charlton) but ran straight into a Brighton player and lost the ball. I thought he was one of our best players vs Charlton and considering the game he had at LB vs Bournemouth I thought maybe there's something there to work with... No. No, he's absolutely shite and doesn't know how to play the position. We need Kortney Hause or a new LB to come in sharpish because I don't trust either of our current options as far as I can throw them.

McDonald - 5.5 - Once BHA had practically gone 4-2-4 the game opened up a bit and he started to play well. Twisting out of trouble and finding a quick pass. Before that though he gave the ball away time after time and was just a body on the edge of our area. Should be praised for his work rate.

Coady - 6 - The game did open up for us in the last 20 minutes and he started to come into his own with a few bursting runs through the centre and one hammer of a shot which was well saved by Stockdale. The better of our 3 defensive midfielders. For the first 60 minutes he gave the ball away too much and was effectively just a body on the edge of our area. Should be praised for his workrate.

Edwards - 5 - Gave the ball away a lot. Just a body on the edge of our area. Should be praised for his workrate.

Henry - 5 - One bit of nice play to put Benik in down the side of their CB but apart from that it was yet another toothless display from one of the only 3 players allowed to venture forward into their third of the pitch. Lacks the speed of thought to consistently perform at this level. He doesn't fool anyone in the Championship, they all know what he's capable of and what he isn't and it's all too easy to stop him. Nothing to be afraid of as an opposing full back. For the umpteenth time this season he was subbed off and immediately improved upon by whoever his replacement happened to be. Hopefully with Byrne, Sigurdarson, Graham and Zyro all available we should start to see less and less of James Henry in the second half of the season. As with all the others he worked hard.

Graham - 6.5 - A tough evening for him as he was very isolated and Brighton clearly went out with a plan to kick him early and often to try and limit him. I have no idea how Bruno and Crofts both escaped yellow cards. Created our goal yet again, beating his man and getting a decent ball in. Struggling to think of a single goal we've scored since he came in that he hasn't been involved in. Hopefully the injury isn't serious.

Afobe - 6.5 - Frustrating night. As with Graham he was kicked from pillar to post all game and had to come off before the end. I bet he's absolutely knackered this morning. Worked his arse off and did well to fight and scrap under the high ball to give our other 2 attacking players time to close the 30+ yard gap and help him out. Can't continue like this though, there's only so long you can ask a player like Benik to put in those sort of performances. His only glimpse of goal was when he ran onto Henry's through ball, faught off the defender and did brilliantly to fire off a shot from a tight angle.

Sigurdarson - 7 - Did really well when he came on. Looked very sharp and more importantly up for the fight which was one of the main criticisms of him in our League 1 season. Still an exciting player in there somewhere, I'd love nothing more than for him to win a place in our team and a new contract after so many ruled him out. Just frustrating that he was subbed on for the purpose of winning headers vs Inigo Calderon and not for his ability with the ball at his feet.

Byrne - ? - Didn't have much time but worked hard like the rest.

le Fondre - ? - Ditto for Byrne.

I'd love to see us line up like this some day soon:

Martinez

Iorfa Williamson Hause New LB

McDonald Price

Zyro/Byrne Sigurdarson Graham

Afobe​

At the moment that seems like a pipe dream.

Well, that got out of hand...

 

[Tony Towner]

I think we have to appreciate where Kenny was at post Sheffield Wednesday - shipping goals and two centre halves who looked mentally shot, but none others he could bring in. He knew that if that continued over Xmas he'd be sacked or at the very least run a significant chance of it, so he's tried to protect the defence.

To do this McDonald has dropped back deeper as has Edwards leaving you with your best passing midfielder too deep to play offensive through balls and your two midfield players with the best engines in the middle. It's made us more compact and difficult to play through and has garnered 3 wins and 3 clean sheets so fair play to him I say.....but 414 1 isn't sustainable even in the medium term with the personnel being picked. In 2 of those three games we still conceded chances, I didn't see Reading, but yesterday we battled hard, threw our bodies on the line and had one particularly good stop from Ikeme, but more often than not something will go in during games like that.

We are 50% of the way to Pulis ball, with the one forward and the 4 6 ft plus defenders, but what he does that makes it work is ensure they are extremely well drilled from set pieces and link the play to the forward better. He'll ideally play wingers with pace and a hard working number 10 in front of 2 screening midfielders, so when they do have the ball they can get up the pitch. For the first 15 minutes of each half yesterday we just gave them the ball back and asked them to come again, more often than not teams with that amount of pressure will score. Afobe needs some support as even when he won the ball at times there wasn't anyone within 40 yds of him so we gave it straight back to them. Against a poorer, confidence drained Charlton side our wingers and Coady were able to support him, but yesterday they were too busy with their defensive duties. Bringing Siggy on to hit long balls at as another option was a good tactical substitution in that game, but again will offer little offensively.

As I said at the start, fair play to Ken for getting us the results, he was criticised for not changing the system, he's done that and 3 wins and clean sheets speak for themselves. Now things have been stabilised he needs to find a system that is sustainable for the rest of the season as this isn't it.

 

[Lord Knows]

Good post Lycon I agree with the following.

I've just watched last nights joyless win back and while I agree that we defended well in the terms of working hard and putting our bodies on the line, I thought the actual defensive organisation and pattern of play was dreadful. Chris Hughton should be very worried about his teams inability to break Wolves down last night, any team with a hint of style or flair would've created chance after chance against us but there weren't actually that many openings. Their game plan didn't seem to extend much beyond giving the ball to Kayal or Wilson and hoping they'd do something special. This wasn't a defensive masterclass from Wolves, we stymied BHA through sheer weight of numbers, the physical size of our back 4, hard work and a hell of a lot of luck. So many times the ball went out wide to a BHA winger/full back and despite having the entire team in our own half nobody went to close him down. Similarly, every time the ball was knocked into the box our entire back 4 seemed to be rooted inside our own 6 yard box with a host of BHA players queueing up at the back post. We were incredibly lucky that they didn't manage to get one ball of genuine quality into the box in 90 minutes.

For me Wolves are NOT defending well as a unit but are defending very well as individuals even though they have serious individual limitations which prevents a more expansive game.
There seems to be better concentration though thats not consistent because of what seems a serious lack of communication.
We are not pressing as a team, not closing angles down as units, not covering as required. We have been over reliant on opponents not having good quality on the ball at key moments and rode our luck accordingly.
That kind of football gets found out over time.

 

[Norman Deeley]

Let's just consider the shot count from our last four games: SWFC we lost 24-11 (source is Who Scored). Reading we lost 24-6 Charlton we lost 10-9 and yesterday we lost 19-6.

Now i know shot stats don't tell everything but over the long term they are a very good guide, with on average, 8 shots leading to a goal. Looking at the stats, you can't say anything other than Wolves have been incredibly fortunate to take 9 points over Xmas: 2 or 3 goal defeats to Reading and Brighton were statistically far more likely than one goal wins.

So I'm really sorry, but a corner hasn't been turned and if we carry on playing as we are, then we are going to get battered by someone, and fairly quickly. Three wins in a row or not, I'm still very firmly in the Jackett out camp, as he isn't getting anywhere near the best from the squad and in the long run the football we're currently playing will see us in the bottom half of the table.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Serious question - Frank and THM, did you watch the game today? If you did and you are happy with how wolves play then I want what you're drinking.

Yes I did watch it, and I was not particularly impressed with how we played. But we were leaking goals, and that had to be addressed, and it has. So hopefully we will start showing a little more attacking intent. And you would be welcome to have a cup of tea with me.

 

[Lord Knows]

A major concern is that we are creating a system of play which suits the worst of our players but neglects the talents of our better players. That can't be right.

 

[Norman Deeley]

A major concern is that we are creating a system of play which suits the worst of our players but neglects the talents of our better players. That can't be right.

Absolutely right - current system has turned Afobe into nothing more than a "willing runner." He must be completely pissed off

 

[Lycan]

A major concern is that we are creating a system of play which suits the worst of our players but neglects the talents of our better players. That can't be right.

Yep, this is it for me. We need to replace the likes of Batth, EEL, Doherty, Henry & Edwards so we don't have to line up with 3 defensive midfielders in an attempt to stop us leaking goals.

 

[Tony Towner]

A major concern is that we are creating a system of play which suits the worst of our players but neglects the talents of our better players. That can't be right.

I think that is a fair way of viewing it and understandable in the very short term, as the limitations of the poor players were overcoming the positive ones of the better guys, as shown by the results. Hopefully Williamson coming back and a new left back will mean we don't have to do that much longer.

 

[Johnny75]

Yep, this is it for me. We need to replace the likes of Batth, EEL, Doherty, Henry & Edwards so we don't have to line up with 3 defensive midfielders in an attempt to stop us leaking goals.

We have replaced 4 of those 5 but the fuckwit manager won't play 3 of them (Golbourne, Wallace, Byrne) with a 4th injured. And you could argue when Williamson turns up none of those 5 should play. You can add Le Fondre and Siggy to that list too.

Jackett has to leave, but it may not be till the end of the season and his contract runs out and before it rolls on for another year.

LK is bang on, without a new manager (and maybe coaches) to change this current ultra defensive thinking it will be Groundhog Day for us all every match day.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

He has a permanently rolling contract. It doesn't run out. Today he has 12 months left. Next month he has 12 months left. End of the season he has 12 months left.