BHA 0 - Wolves 1 The highway robbery verdict thread

[Quirkafleeg]

Paddy yam feeding the trolls, surely even you know how that finishes.

 

[Hamlet]

What are you talking about then? Are we supposed to celebrate being $#@!ing abysmal because we somehow beat three $#@! teams in a row? Jesus wept.

With respect where did I say that I thought we were fantastic? Main point really was 'hopefully our style becomes more exciting with new signings.'

 

[thehistorymakers]

That's not what either said though? It was more the case we are winning so all is well and we should all shut up and be happy. Wolves were, for the most part, dreadful today. It was awful to watch a team with great attackers like Afobe and Graham sit back and let Brighton have the ball. The possession stats were embarrassing.

I don't mind counter attack football, but that's not what we play. We don't even close teams down when they have the ball in our half, we just drop deeper and deeper.

No, don't tell me what I said!( I got that from Paddy) I can't stand running our own players down before they have kicked a ball. We have had to stop an awful run of matces. We have done it, with 3 wins. I am elated with that. I would rather win bad, than lose playing good football, as we need to pull away from relegation. I would prefer to win playing beautiful football, but after the results we had, I am very happy with recent form. I will be even happier when we start playing beautiful football.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I was answering THM

 

[Hamlet]

I was answering THM

ah, alright - sorry 'bout that!

 

[thehistorymakers]

Paddy yam feeding the trolls, surely even you know how that finishes.

I am not a troll. I always support my club, doesn't matter how shit they are! I supported MM till his last day, Stale the Viking is still my hero. Mind you, even I knew Dean Saunders was thick! Hahaha

 

[thehistorymakers]

ah, alright - sorry 'bout that!

That's OK Paddy, I forgive you.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I was answering THM

Where have I said we were fantastic?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I am happy with them winning.

No point watching the games then is there? Just check the scores at full time and decide whether or not you can smile.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It would be churlish to give Ken absolutely zero credit. Results are results and clean sheets are clean sheets.

However:

1) It has been more through luck than judgement that we've kept these clean sheets. It isn't like we're restricting the opposition to purely pot shots from range and nothing else, Reading had tons of chances and Brighton still had 3-4 reasonable opportunities today. So you're not playing a perfect defensive game, working to a carefully laid plan, you're dropping lucky.

2) Our best player now has a terrible job. It was bad enough before when we were hoofing the ball at him and Edwards was his only support. He now has zero support. Chase lost causes, play against 2-3 defenders on your own, enjoy that Ben. It's not great that the best striker in the league is being reduced to the role of a jobbing Jamie Mackie type. It'll hurt us long term if we do that on all kinds of levels.

3) Entertainment is a major part of football otherwise we'd all just check the result on the BBC site at full time and be happy if we won, sad if we lost. We are currently providing zero entertainment value.

4) I am concerned that the manager will buy into these results and think everything is ok, and keep playing the same way. I really don't want us playing this way, it's no fun at all and we don't need to do it in this division. It's borderline acceptable when you're scrapping for points in the PL against miles better teams (and even then only short term).

5) There are numerous glaring issues with that current starting XI, they desperately need resolving. As point 4 I really hope we don't stick with this line up, we'll come unstuck sooner rather than later.

None of that is to say that I'm not delighted we've picked up nine points from nine. Like many though I can see beyond the result, it's there for all to see.

 

[thehistorymakers]

No point watching the games then is there? Just check the scores at full time and decide whether or not you can smile.

Like a lost penny. Happy new year, MarkakaJIM

 

[thehistorymakers]

It would be churlish to give Ken absolutely zero credit. Results are results and clean sheets are clean sheets.

However:

1) It has been more through luck than judgement that we've kept these clean sheets. It isn't like we're restricting the opposition to purely pot shots from range and nothing else, Reading had tons of chances and Brighton still had 3-4 reasonable opportunities today. So you're not playing a perfect defensive game, working to a carefully laid plan, you're dropping lucky.

2) Our best player now has a terrible job. It was bad enough before when we were hoofing the ball at him and Edwards was his only support. He now has zero support. Chase lost causes, play against 2-3 defenders on your own, enjoy that Ben. It's not great that the best striker in the league is being reduced to the role of a jobbing Jamie Mackie type. It'll hurt us long term if we do that on all kinds of levels.

3) Entertainment is a major part of football otherwise we'd all just check the result on the BBC site at full time and be happy if we won, sad if we lost. We are currently providing zero entertainment value.

4) I am concerned that the manager will buy into these results and think everything is ok, and keep playing the same way. I really don't want us playing this way, it's no fun at all and we don't need to do it in this division. It's borderline acceptable when you're scrapping for points in the PL against miles better teams (and even then only short term).

5) There are numerous glaring issues with that current starting XI, they desperately need resolving. As point 4 I really hope we don't stick with this line up, we'll come unstuck sooner rather than later.

None of that is to say that I'm not delighted we've picked up nine points from nine. Like many though I can see beyond the result, it's there for all to see.

Would you mind putting your best 11 players up?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Would you mind putting your best 11 players up?

From what we have now - and I won't include Zyro as I've never seen him play, nor anyone who's been injured long term (I would play Martinez and Hause if available, but they aren't):

--------------------Ikeme--------------------

Iorfa-------Batth------Ebanks-Landell--------Golbourne

Byrne------McDonald------Price-------------Graham

-------------Afobe--------Le Fondre-------------------

It's not just personnel though, it's mindset and approach where Ken and I differ this year. Especially in home games.

 

[thehistorymakers]

A good exciting home team, not to sure away from home though. Obviously a few of those players aren't fit at the moment. Would you have Edwards on the bench? Do you think that Wallace has anything to offer?

 

[pr0sl0]

I'd play Dicko ahead of Le Fondre in that team too, as I imagine most of us would, as an addition to your Hause/Martinez note.

Damn we miss him.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd have Edwards on the bench, he is actually of value at times coming on in the last 20-30 minutes if we're trying to see out a lead. I've seen Wallace for a total of about 70 minutes I think, none of them in his proper position so hard to say. If we are going to play 4-2-3-1 (we aren't doing that right now, it's a bona fide 4-5-1) then I think he is worth a go at number 10 more than Edwards or Afobe are, both of whom have been tried extensively and it hasn't worked at all for either. If he isn't up to it then fine - but he deserves a chance, surely we bought him for a reason. Still annoys me that Jacobs got 0 starts there last season.

Ken does this a lot, his favoured players get game after game after game regardless of output, those he's on the fence about get at best a couple of games before being consigned to weeks of bench duty again.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I'd play Dicko ahead of Le Fondre in that team too, as I imagine most of us would, as an addition to your Hause/Martinez note.

Damn we miss him.

I only hope he gets back to full fitness for next season.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd play Dicko ahead of Le Fondre in that team too, as I imagine most of us would, as an addition to your Hause/Martinez note.

Damn we miss him.

Ah, of course. Not even entering into the equation though for me as it stands being as we won't see him this season (whereas Emi and Hause should be back inside a month or so). And yes, we miss him badly. He'd have helped us so much today in gaining territory, Benik gave it everything he had but it isn't his game.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I'd have Edwards on the bench, he is actually of value at times coming on in the last 20-30 minutes if we're trying to see out a lead. I've seen Wallace for a total of about 70 minutes I think, none of them in his proper position so hard to say. If we are going to play 4-2-3-1 (we aren't doing that right now, it's a bona fide 4-5-1) then I think he is worth a go at number 10 more than Edwards or Afobe are, both of whom have been tried extensively and it hasn't worked at all for either. If he isn't up to it then fine - but he deserves a chance, surely we bought him for a reason. Still annoys me that Jacobs got 0 starts there last season.

Ken does this a lot, his favoured players get game after game after game regardless of output, those he's on the fence about get at best a couple of games before being consigned to weeks of bench duty again.

I agree with that.

 

[Alan]

Not seen the past three games but based on what I've read and the two sides of the fence that seem to have sprung up, I'll say this:

Shit football, losing football, pretty football, and winning football are not things that automatically coincide one another. Tony Pulis has teams play shit football, but it's winning football. The kind of defensive organization that makes narrow victories feel purposeful rather than lucky.

KJ, at the moment, seems to have us playing shit football and losing football. Yes, we've kept three clean sheets and taken nine points. But the prevailing feeling seems to be that we're lucky rather than good (or even decent). Luck is not a sustainable tactic.

Lucky football is losing football over the long run. Yes, short term it can be better to be lucky than good, but over time the quality of a team and its tactics will always shake out.

We simply cannot continue playing this way.