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Wolves 2-4 Leeds: Verdict Thread

Home after having to drive and I've rewatched the highlights.

1. The pen shout isn't as clear cut as I expected, on balance it probably is but it's hardly the worst decision I've seen
2. Wtf was Adama complaining about on the 4th, it's the meekest of short pulls
3. The worst goal was Aylings, free header
4. Jimmy's red card was the correct decision
5. I prefer the train to driving, though at least it meant I didn't see any Leeds fans on the way home.
 
I don't know what our chance creating style is supposed to be, how we're trying to play. I know Lop is a good manager, you don't get the jobs he's had and win what he's won without being it. But stylistically I don't know what he's trying to do, and he changes things so often it must be confusing for the players too. I'm not excusing them - I'd happily see 80% of them fuck off, in the Summer - but I do think he just needs to pick an eleven and stick to it to see if they can build up some confidence, consistency and chemistry.
Totally agree with this. I also worry that the continual arguments with officials, though justified, isn`t going to influence them. It could have a detrimental effect and make them even more biased. Sad to see but Raul and Jonny are a spent force.
 
I don’t mind the worlds against as long as it’s channelled correctly. We seem to go into sulk and spoilt child mode unfortunately.
The problem lop has is he has numerous attacking players who turn up on a sporadic occasion. Fully understand picking Neto after last week then he puts in an average display.
As has been said even 4 more points before the World Cup would probably have us comfortable.
Poor discipline in the squad also can’t remember us picking up so many red cards in one season.
 
If it was a conspiracy Dawson would’ve been off before halftime.
Incompetence is the issue and scrambled minds.
We defended like buffoons and that’s the reason for us losing today.
If we go down it’ll be due to incompetence in both penalty areas over 9 months.
The ref also wasn’t going to send Jonny off.

It’s not a conspiracy against wolves. There is literally 0 reason for there to be.

Have we been on the rough end of some truly abysmal/bizarre decisions over the last 6 weeks? Yes.

However, we are the architects of our own position, not the refs
 
On MOTD first, and Ashley Williams and Dion Dublin are agreeing with every decision the referee and VAR have made today. They think Lopetegui has gone too far with the complaints and that Dawson should have been sent off. So there’s that.
 
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I think the referee was absolute garbage and didn’t look like he had a clue what was going on throughout, alongside awful time keeping and game management. But I don’t think the Semedo one is a pen, Dawson was lucky and Jonny is a red. The Adama one is irrelevant in the grand scheme but as little as there is in it common sense just says give the foul. Players get light pulls and stop all the Time so the ref instantly give it.

As for the Nunes red. If there’s clear evidence nothing happened why haven’t VAR cleared that up?
 
No camera angle...
 
I think the referee was absolute garbage and didn’t look like he had a clue what was going on throughout, alongside awful time keeping and game management. But I don’t think the Semedo one is a pen, Dawson was lucky and Jonny is a red. The Adama one is irrelevant in the grand scheme but as little as there is in it common sense just says give the foul. Players get light pulls and stop all the Time so the ref instantly give it.

As for the Nunes red. If there’s clear evidence nothing happened why haven’t VAR cleared that up?
I think the Semedo one is a penalty, he kicks Semedo and doesn’t touch the ball. I can sort of see why they wouldn’t class it as clear and obvious but it’s a foul.

I think Dawson was possibly lucky with his yellow card challenge, his foul on Bamford was initiated by the Leeds player from my view at the time. Jonny’s is a red every time, not sure how the ref missed that in real time.

Adama should play on but it’s a foul, there’s no advantage and it’s a blatant pull. It doesn’t affect the result really but i just can’t understand it.

Nunes one will be interesting if we ever see it. He wasn’t happy once the red was shown though and i can see them upholding the red because of that.

The time wasting in the premier league is making games near impossible to enjoy, no ref ever has control over it. I reckon Meslier must have wasted at least 7-8 minutes on his own today and got booked after 100 minutes.
 
Putting the emotional frustration, and obviously the damage it's done etc, it's got to be said - what a game of football that was.

I'll do the decisions first. Penalty - I think it's one, but can understand why he's not given it in real time. However he should 100% be told to go and have a second look, and in doing so he gives it, there's no doubt.

On their fourth. Well I've only seen it twice and as I'm in a minority of two I won't rule out the possibility that I'm wrong*, but I don't think it's a foul. Yes, he has a little tug of his shirt but it doesn't come close to effecting Adama's momentum, it was very much a choice to stop playing. If we're having free kicks for every tiny shirt pull, hand on the shoulder or whatever the game will never get going, there'll be an extra 30 free kicks a game. There was nothing in it.

Onto the performance...well, if you're shit in both boxes, then you're always going to be flirting with danger. We look like conceding almost every time we're attacked. Rodrygo should've scored when he went through one on one, there was Gomes clearing one off the line, and all four of the goals were very, very avoidable.

And as well as not being able to defend, they absolutely shit themselves when they're pressed in possession. I don't get it, because on the face of things all four of them are technically decent footballers, but the rushed, panicked way they pass under pressure is a bit embarrassing tbh. I don't know whether it's midfielders not finding intelligent enough passing lanes or just a total lack of composure, but most of the time it just looks so classless when compared to teams like Brighton, Brentford or Fulham. I think the manager has to ask himself some questions there because it's a very coachable way of playing with decent footballing defenders.

We had more chances than usual today - Adama was excellent - but again I don't think we were missing sitter after sitter. The Kilman cross and the Sarabia one were golden chances, but generally we just don't create the quality of chances. A good bit of football, striker in a yard of space, and clinical finish...fuck knows the last time we scored a goal like that. They always seem scrappy, deflections or bobbles or defensive errors, and so rarely just as a result of good football that's hard to defend against.

I don't know what our chance creating style is supposed to be, how we're trying to play. I know Lop is a good manager, you don't get the jobs he's had and win what he's won without being it. But stylistically I don't know what he's trying to do, and he changes things so often it must be confusing for the players too. I'm not excusing them - I'd happily see 80% of them fuck off, in the Summer - but I do think he just needs to pick an eleven and stick to it to see if they can build up some confidence, consistency and chemistry.

Leeds stopped playing at 1-0, and we asked them very few questions until we'll into the second half, despite having the best of the ball and the territory, and that's not good enough. We just don't know what to do with the football.

Won't bother with ratings. Adama was excellent, Neves was good, and everybody else was somewhere between shit and meh.

*though tbf the chances of such titans of the game as me and Deutsch *both* being wrong on something are pretty slim
What an absolute brilliant summary
 
The time wasting in the premier league is making games near impossible to enjoy, no ref ever has control over it. I reckon Meslier must have wasted at least 7-8 minutes on his own today and got booked after 100 minutes.
I went for piss when Harrison got crocked. I came back and got in my seat and play still hadn’t started. He added 2 minutes, 1 more than then the standard 1 they normally add despite the goal, that injury, the Semedo check and talking to Meslier 3 times about time wasting. Why are they making it so difficult for themselves? I’m not surprised as it’s the same cunt as Bournemouth.

He then basically ignored all time wasting in the second half and then gave him the token yellow in the final minute.

I swear Sa got a first half booking for time wasting this year too which just makes it all more annoying.

Why they are all making time management so difficult I don’t know. Need to take it out their hands as they clearly aren’t capable.
 
The reason the penalty might not look like one is because their legs were both going in the same direction, so there's no visible force to the tackle. He definitely kicks him though and only gets there after Semedo has kicked the ball.

Today's decisions were less clear cut than recent ones but its a culmination of a constant grind against the match officials.
 
On MOTD first, and Ashley Williams and Dion Dublin are agreeing with every decision the referee and VAR have made today. They think Lopetegui has gone too far with the complaints and that Dawson should have been sent off. So there’s that.
They are fucking wrong. It was a penalty. The red card is correct. The fourth goal I’m sort of 50/50 seen em given mode. The scandal is the penalty not being given.

BUT we emptied both barrels into both feet with some awful awful defending and we simply cannot afford to do that.
 
I noticed Podence changed his boots immediately before kickoff. Nevertheless despite that and his low centre of gravity he was barely able to stand up. Makes me wonder what he was wearing when he came out, slicks?
 
Seems to me that foul is being used, not so much on here, to shield the wider issues of the performance. Unless we go down on gd of 1, or 2 to Leeds it made no difference. It was the last couple of seconds and we'd already burnt out. It's the Molineux dead cat.
 
You could argue, purely mathematically, that referring decisions were the difference between 3-3 and 2-4.

Caveated obviously with we didn't deserve anything anyway.
 
Seems to me that foul is being used, not so much on here, to shield the wider issues of the performance. Unless we go down on gd of 1, or 2 to Leeds it made no difference. It was the last couple of seconds and we'd already burnt out. It's the Molineux dead cat.
It’s still an absurd situation so I can see why it’s a talking point. I don’t think anyone thinks it affected the result or excuse the performance.
 
You could argue, purely mathematically, that referring decisions were the difference between 3-3 and 2-4.

Caveated obviously with we didn't deserve anything anyway.
My concern is there's too much focus on your first paragraph and not enough on the second. Yesterday looks worse because it comes off the back of the Newcastle debacle, but obsessing about refs isn't going to get us anywhere, I'm more refering to the team than on here. For the 2 decisions that went against us, 1 went for us, which the manager knows, hence subbing him off. Of the 3 real in real time that was the most blatent
 
They don’t excuse the performance, and Julen has (rightly) been picked up on his odd starting selections and substitutions - and a few of the players have been dug out. BUT, we get the penalty v Newcastle and Pope gets sent off (they’ve since admitted this is what should have happened), it’s a completely different game.

Likewise yesterday, we get that penalty and score, the game is back to 1-1 with ages left and we’re not coming back from a three goal deficit.

There’s absolutely no way we end the last two games on 0 points had the correct decisions been made. Therefore, no one can argue against the fact the officials incompetence has directly affected the results.

We need these key decisions to start being called correctly and the players/manager to improve, or we genuinely could go down.
 
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