Wolves 2-4 Bournemouth: Verdict Thread

[Carsy]

How many individual errors do you want before you go to the top? It's happened week after week after week

Not sure what you mean by ‘before you go to the top’?

Agree it happens week after week, and the buck stops with the manager (clearly said that)

What’s crazy is the amount of individual errors, and the type. Yesterday toti just madness, then 2 back passes. Doubt that’s worked on at Compton..


Seeing GoN say he had to play the same team is bollocks. Was it after the Man City game he said the same for next game? It’s not Sunday league where you have to give everyone a game

 

[Tony Towner]

It is really weird. I'd have sacked him at pretty much any point last season barring a spell of a about 4 games when I thought I might have had it wrong. But I could obviously accept and understand why I was in a minority at that point.

Towards the end of the season it became more difficult to accept, because we were really shit. Still, the main noise was trust in Gary, it's not his fault we've had injuries etc. I couldn't understand why people couldn't see that, yes, it's not his fault we've had injuries, but it is his fault that he hasn't reacted *at all* to them. I was still in a minority, and was starting to wonder if I was going mad.

And we get to now, and it's clear that anybody who wouldn't hand deliver his p45 is basically a fucking nut job who's opinion shouldn't be taken seriously on any subject, ever again.

His performance has been completely unacceptable, whatever timescale you choose to pick. Yet still, there are loads of people supporting him. Absolutely boggles my mind. They shouldn't even be allowed to use a kettle, they're not of sound mind.

His positive periods have always relied on individual performances, not the collective. Hwang looking like a footballer for 2 months, Neto recovering his form, Cunha scoring worldies. You can praise him for coaching those good moments out of them, but it's not a sustainable way to consistently win football matches. After a season and a half that's not going to suddenly change and neither is he going to set us up with a defensive stability. He just not capable of it.

Tbf to him he wanted a new keeper and they got him a dud and a centre half and they went after 2nd rate options and refused to pay the fee, that may have made some difference, but not enough to overcome his fundamental coaching flaws in that area.

He may get enough points to keep us up from those moments of brilliance, but we are a Cunha injury off guaranteed relegation. Fosuns entire ambition is to finish 17th, that in itself is a bigger issue than GON, but he doesn't have the quality needed to deliver on that brief year in year out. To do that we'll need to employ managers in the same way we recruit players to use us as a stepping stone to something better. Also not realistic or sustainable.

 

[jd1981]

Yesterday was a disaster, it’s noting new though. Toti sets the tone in the first minute and it just tails of badly from there on in.
Mental strength is the weakest I’ve seen in a Wolves side in years.
To many early goals after the start of a game or after half time.
5 penalties conceded already, the amount of goals we concede very soon after scoring.
Chelsea, Liverpool, Brentford, Palace & yesterday we’ve scored and very quickly let any initiativ slip by.

 

[Tony Towner]

Not sure what you mean by ‘before you go to the top’?

Agree it happens week after week, and the buck stops with the manager (clearly said that)

What’s crazy is the amount of individual errors, and the type. Yesterday toti just madness, then 2 back passes. Doubt that’s worked on at Compton..


Seeing GoN say he had to play the same team is bollocks. Was it after the Man City game he said the same for next game? It’s not Sunday league where you have to give everyone a game

You said you were sympathetic towards him because the 3 penalties were individual errors. These players make individual errors week in week out, because they are badly coached. That's on him and he deserves zero sympathy for it

 

[Carsy]

You said you were sympathetic towards him because the 3 penalties were individual errors. These players make individual errors week in week out, because they are badly coached. That's on him and he deserves zero sympathy for it

More so the type of errors. Being badly coached doesn’t transcend to ‘let’s hit a short back pass’ for example. So yes, i do have some sympathy in that respect.

 

[Tony Towner]

More so the type of errors. Being badly coached doesn’t transcend to ‘let’s hit a short back pass’ for example. So yes, i do have some sympathy in that respect.

In isolation no, when it happens week in week out it does, because that's what badly coached teams do.

 

[jd1981]

The Jose Sa one is a direct result of trying to play out from the back and him dallying on the ball to long.
Toti positioning is all wrong to start with the first one.
Their second goal were far to open.
As I said before this continuation of conceding quickly after a re-start is huge mentality issue which isn’t being resolved.

 

[Carsy]

In isolation no, when it happens week in week out it does.

Wasn’t aware we conceded penalties from under hit back passes weekly.

You can blame certain errors on a manager, Ofcourse. Being wide open and not tracking for example, or when people complain about RaN positioning as that I’d imagine is by instruction.

Underhitting a backpass, Sa being Sa, and even to an extent toti won’t be down to instruction.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Wasn’t aware we conceded penalties from under hit back passes weekly.

You can blame certain errors on a manager, Ofcourse. Being wide open and not tracking for example, or when people complain about RaN positioning as that I’d imagine is by instruction.

Underhitting a backpass, Sa being Sa, and even to an extent toti won’t be down to instruction.

Poor back passes yesterday, but that’s just the latest in a long line of chaos. Early on it was leaving acres of space in front of the back four as Gomes and Lemina were tasked with chasing the ball down. Then it was Keystone Cop defending of set pieces. We are the exact opposite of a Nuno side where the manger knew how he wanted to play and the players knew their roles. Now we just move from one set up to another and there’s zero stability or organisation. Even in the two games we won there were long spells where we couldn’t string three passes together and yesterday the lack of movement off the ball was evident, it all points to good players being micro coached and we’ve forgotten the bigger picture. If GO stays we go down, it’s as simple as that.

 

[Carsy]

Poor back passes yesterday, but that’s just the latest in a long line of chaos. Early on it was leaving acres of space in front of the back four as Gomes and Lemina were tasked with chasing the ball down. Then it was Keystone Cop defending of set pieces. We are the exact opposite of a Nuno side where the manger knew how he wanted to play and the players knew their roles. Now we just move from one set up to another and there’s zero stability or organisation. Even in the two games we won there were long spells where we couldn’t string three passes together and yesterday the lack of movement off the ball was evident, it all points to good players being micro coached and we’ve forgotten the bigger picture. If GO stays we go down, it’s as simple as that.

I don’t disagree with the majority of that. I was just saying I had an element of sympathy based on the self inflicted penalties we gave away.

The ‘chaos’ and how we set up is entirely on the manager. No dispute there and I’ve said I’d get rid and would’ve before the 4 games unbeaten.

 

[prawnking]

Wasn’t aware we conceded penalties from under hit back passes weekly.

You can blame certain errors on a manager, Ofcourse. Being wide open and not tracking for example, or when people complain about RaN positioning as that I’d imagine is by instruction.

Underhitting a backpass, Sa being Sa, and even to an extent toti won’t be down to instruction.

Players who aren't comfortable and well drilled, and a unit that doesn't know what the fuck it's doing in or out of possession, are scenarios that invariably lead to 'individual' errors. It's not as simple as being given instructions to 'not make mistakes'

I could have set up the team yesterday and done no worse in the first 20 mins than GON did. Amateur hour

 

[prawnking]

Poor back passes yesterday, but that’s just the latest in a long line of chaos. Early on it was leaving acres of space in front of the back four as Gomes and Lemina were tasked with chasing the ball down. Then it was Keystone Cop defending of set pieces. We are the exact opposite of a Nuno side where the manger knew how he wanted to play and the players knew their roles. Now we just move from one set up to another and there’s zero stability or organisation. Even in the two games we won there were long spells where we couldn’t string three passes together and yesterday the lack of movement off the ball was evident, it all points to good players being micro coached and we’ve forgotten the bigger picture. If GO stays we go down, it’s as simple as that.

One problem with GON is that he's bought into the hype (some self-generated, some from his media love-ins, some from equally smug cunts like Hobbs and Shi, some from simping fans) that he's some kind of 'student of the game' and can assimilate what the top managers are doing.

In actuality, what he does is isolate one element of play that a successful club is doing, then crowbars it into our setup, regardless of personnel, opposition or context

 

[Carsy]

One problem with GON is that he's bought into the hype (some self-generated, some from his media love-ins, some from equally smug cunts like Hobbs and Shi, some from simping fans) that he's some kind of 'student of the game' and can assimilate what the top managers are doing.

In actuality, what he does is isolate one element of play that a successful club is doing, then crowbars it into our setup, regardless of personnel, opposition or context

I don’t get the media love in. He does seem to have this ability of not getting criticised at all by them.

Is it because he’s open with the media? English? Who knows, but if it was Bruno Lage in charge (welp) with 3 wins in 23 definitely wouldn’t get the ‘they had a difficult start’ rhetoric

 

[Kenny]

Is it because he’s open with the media?

This plays a big part in it. Always happy to share or even over share and never seems to get narky when they ask shite questions

 

[prawnking]

Definitely an English manager thing as well

 

[Loki]

We do not have a very good defence. You can get away with a defence such as ours in this league if they are managed properly. GON does not have the ability to do this. He should not be managing in this league at this stage of his managerial career. He should be learning the job in the lower leagues. I think, unfortunately, that the individual errors yesterday has bought him even more time. Naively run Club with a tactically naive manager is the perfect recipe for relegation. When he does eventually go we will need someone with a proven track record at whatever level we are playing at, at the time.

 

[EnglishBob]

Presumably he gets asked regularly just why results are so consistently terrible. Recent wins now seem like an anomaly, not a reversal of fortune. Get him in, ask why that result happened. Unless he can explain it away, and demonstrate he can fix it, relieve him of his duties on the spot. The dithering will kill us. Lucky for him he got a new contract (saving face) and, as usual these days, there are some other really bad teams down there with us giving the illusion we can scrape survival. We won't with this bum in charge.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Leicester thought they could scrape survival hanging on with Brentdan when he was a fucking disaster area. That went well.

Fuck the bloke off now, for the love of God.

 

[Mel Evo]

Presumably he gets asked regularly just why results are so consistently terrible. Recent wins now seem like an anomaly, not a reversal of fortune. Get him in, ask why that result happened. Unless he can explain it away, and demonstrate he can fix it, relieve him of his duties on the spot. The dithering will kill us. Lucky for him he got a new contract (saving face) and, as usual these days, there are some other really bad teams down there with us giving the illusion we can scrape survival. We won't with this bum in charge.

But there’s no normal governance in this organisation, so there is no questioning - they’re marking their own homework. Hard to know exactly which metrics they’re using, but rest assured they think they’re top of the class, even if we’re bottom of the League. Carry on chumocracy.

 

[WVWolf]

It was poor coaching.

It's clearly a tactic to play out from the back, and that, once again, caused almost all of our problems.

Bournemouth are brilliant at pressing, something Semedo claimed they knew and worked on. Yet we chose to invite pressure.

Sa made a mistake, but he made the mistake because for some reason we can't just go long to a 6ft4 striker who is very good in the air and proved he was capable of winning duels against their defence. Of course, we all know by now that Sa can't play with his feet, so why do it?

It was incredibly naive and all self inflicted.

Bournemouth are a good side but they didn't actually do anything special for any of the build-up to the goals with the exception of the Kerkez goal, but even that would have been avoided if the goal-kick went long and we pushed up.