Wolves 2-0 Palace: Verdict Thread

[Elephant Pyjamas]

That was Boly's fault for giving a five yard pass away and Doc's fault for being about 40 yards away from where he should have been (when it gets passed out to Schlupp, he isn't even in our half).

Did get too tight to Zaha once but it came to nowt. His errors previously have been trying passes that are too ambitious in the wrong situation.

I'd be very surprised if Schlupp was Doc's responsibility in that instance.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd be very surprised if Schlupp was Doc's responsibility in that instance.

He shouldn't be miles up in their half (right alongside Adama) when we've got the ball in that position! We weren't even looking to switch it over to him. It was a real mess, uncharacteristic of us. We had absolutely no-one on the right hand side.

Fortunately Schlupp is rubbish.

 

[The Bear]

Well that is surely by tactical design. He's that far up in case the ball gets moved back to Coady and he is then in a position to receive a diagonal ball.

You can't design an attacking process that has a contingency for giving the ball away in your own half.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If we did do that all the time then we'd get caught in a similar situation very often, and we rarely do. Someone fucked up somewhere. Although principally Boly as if he doesn't do his Kev McDonald impression of knocking a five yard pass three yards, there isn't a situation.

 

[Sniffer]

Well that is surely by tactical design. He's that far up in case the ball gets moved back to Coady and he is then in a position to receive a diagonal ball.

Should be coming back to keep the shape. As for the Schlupp chance, poor ball from Boly, missed opportunity of a tactical foul by Neves (?), Dendoncker gets sucked into the ball leaving the chance on the outside of him.

 

[Kenny]

Mout here on how simple football really is

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

"I want to win all the games" :worshippy:

 

[Kenny]

Just love the "thankfully I did a good pass"

 

[Dinowolf]

Thought Doherty had a good game tonight, but to compare him to TAA can only be valid in an attacking sense.

On the defending side of things, then Doherty is often found wanting, being out of position time after time. This causes an opening to get round our defence, and enables crosses to be put in and creates uncertainty for the other defenders.

IMO it is no coincidence that Boly has not looked as good since moving over to the right as he has to manage a lot of situations without his FB.
It is easier to teach someone the attacking side of WB play rather than try to teach someone the defensive side, so Wolves need to be looking to replace Doherty this summer.

 

[Kenny]

Wolves need to be looking to replace Doherty this summer.

Its going to happen at some point but amazing we have probably spent 6 or 7 summers saying this

 

[sycophantia]

Thought Doherty had a good game tonight, but to compare him to TAA can only be valid in an attacking sense.

On the defending side of things, then Doherty is often found wanting, being out of position time after time. This causes an opening to get round our defence, and enables crosses to be put in and creates uncertainty for the other defenders.

IMO it is no coincidence that Boly has not looked as good since moving over to the right as he has to manage a lot of situations without his FB.
It is easier to teach someone the attacking side of WB play rather than try to teach someone the defensive side, so Wolves need to be looking to replace Doherty this summer.

Personally I think Doc is better than TAA defensively on the whole, not been impressed with TAA's defensive qualities when I've seen him

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Thought Doherty had a good game tonight, but to compare him to TAA can only be valid in an attacking sense.

On the defending side of things, then Doherty is often found wanting, being out of position time after time. This causes an opening to get round our defence, and enables crosses to be put in and creates uncertainty for the other defenders.

IMO it is no coincidence that Boly has not looked as good since moving over to the right as he has to manage a lot of situations without his FB.
It is easier to teach someone the attacking side of WB play rather than try to teach someone the defensive side, so Wolves need to be looking to replace Doherty this summer.

Where is this myth that Boly hasn't been good at RCB come from? Between his return from injury and up to the Arsenal game he was impervious, and the stats back that up, we barely conceded a goal with him there, he hasn't looked as good on either side since that game for whatever reason.

Doc is a WB not a FB, he and Jonny are fundamental parts of how we attack (a goal and an assist between them last night) so yeah, they aren't always going to be exactly where we would want them to be defensively, especially when we are being counter attacked or if we give the ball away, but that is exactly why we have 3 at the back, to cover for that eventuality, I think you'd struggle to argue that Doc or Jonny have been out of position and cost us (m)any goals this season? Throw in the fact that Doc scores goals, is good in the air, has a good attitude (now) and never seems to get injured i don't really understand why he is constantly one in game mistake away from a pile on.

I'm pretty sure that if Nuno had signed Doherty a few days after his arrival the opinion of him would be entirely different, the fat and shit stigma he justifiably acquired prior to Nuno's arrival still follows him around now and means that he is under rated and under appreciated by many Wolves fans.

 

[pacamac]

Thought Doherty had a good game tonight, but to compare him to TAA can only be valid in an attacking sense.

On the defending side of things, then Doherty is often found wanting, being out of position time after time. This causes an opening to get round our defence, and enables crosses to be put in and creates uncertainty for the other defenders.

IMO it is no coincidence that Boly has not looked as good since moving over to the right as he has to manage a lot of situations without his FB.
It is easier to teach someone the attacking side of WB play rather than try to teach someone the defensive side, so Wolves need to be looking to replace Doherty this summer.

Except he was defensively sound last night again, and recently has got back to cover other defenders after they've made mistakes quite often.

You mention Boly not being as good on the right and pin it on Doherty maybe its just as much to do with Boly being a natural left sided centre back! The main draw back of Boly on the right isn't his defending caused by having to make up for Doherty (defensively Boly is pretty nailed on either side prone to the odd lapse in concentration/mistake but very few and far between) its his pressing/playing out from defence which he does a lot better on the left but not so much on the right which suggests it has a lot more to do with where he feels more comfortable.

Doherty has easily been our best wing back defensively since the restart. Otto having a bit of a poor patch despite his goal last night.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

And that doesn't mean that he doesn't need genuine competition, he does, Matheson is probably too raw at the moment, and moving Jonny over isn't really a good solution either, but Doherty has learnt that role perfectly, he has improved his touch and defensive attributes no end, he won't be as easy to replace as many think, particularly as so few other teams play with wing backs, so you'd be looking to convert a FB into a WB, or a RW into a WB, it isn't that easy.

 

[pacamac]

Where is this myth that Boly hasn't been good at RCB come from? Between his return from injury and up to the Arsenal game he was impervious, and the stats back that up, we barely conceded a goal with him there, he hasn't looked as good on either side since that game for whatever reason.

Doc is a WB not a FB, he and Jonny are fundamental parts of how we attack (a goal and an assist between them last night) so yeah, they aren't always going to be exactly where we would want them to be defensively, especially when we are being counter attacked or if we give the ball away, but that is exactly why we have 3 at the back, to cover for that eventuality, I think you'd struggle to argue that Doc or Jonny have been out of position and cost us (m)any goals this season? Throw in the fact that Doc scores goals, is good in the air, has a good attitude (now) and never seems to get injured i don't really understand why he is constantly one in game mistake away from a pile on.

I'm pretty sure that if Nuno had signed Doherty a few days after his arrival the opinion of him would be entirely different, the fat and shit stigma he justifiably acquired prior to Nuno's arrival still follows him around now and means that he is under rated and under appreciated by many Wolves fans.

Don't think Boly is poor on the right you're correct its a myth defensively he's pretty much just the same left or right (a good 95% type player all the time). Think he does look more assured playing out on the left but its hardly a case for saying he's poor on the right.

Very good point think people often judge Doherty and Otto defensively by the standards of a normal full back...they're not. Want a full back like that then kiss goodbye to the goals and assists.

If Doherty was Portuguese (or even Italian/Mexican etc) these fans who think he needs replacing would be calling for a statue of him outside the ground!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Cancelo is still the ideal. Citeh never play wing backs, I don't know why they signed him other than it being a FFP fiddle with Juve and Danilo.

But if he's the bar for us to beat Doc, he's doing ok. He does still annoy me at times (one bloody awful cross last night was a proper 2014 throwback ) but he has been largely excellent for us over the last two years. I thought we carried him a bit in 2017/18 and those first two games in 2018/19 had me very worried. But fair play.

We don't live in a Blade Runner world though, I can't forget everything between 2012 and 2017.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We don't live in a Blade Runner world though, I can't forget everything between 2012 and 2017.

:icon_biggrin:

 

[Kenny]

Doherty has easily been our best wing back defensively since the restart. Otto having a bit of a poor patch despite his goal last night.

Before last night I thought Jonny had been superb since the return. Villa couldn't cope with him.
He had a poor half last night in terms of passing but wouldn't say he has had a poor patch of form

 

[pacamac]

Before last night I thought Jonny had been superb since the return. Villa couldn't cope with him.
He gad a poor half last night in terms of passing but wouldn't say he has had a poor patch of form

Sorry yes Villa he was brilliant actually (contender for man of match) but for the most part I think he's been poor by his standards since the break (usually very consistent) think he was poor last night especially in the first half, and poor against Burnley.

 

[Kenny]

How many mins did he play v Burnley? Rubes Jnr started