West Ham 0 v 1 Wolves: The Verdict Thread

[Boozad]

And he's only playing in the last 20-25 minutes most of the time.

Small samples, if he played 90 minutes he'd lose the ball more than Jota and Costa put together.

 

[Alan]

No I'm not.

They are consistently making decisions that I do not believe benefit the team. I am not trying to imply that they do not care about the team's success.

 

[Boozad]

They are consistently making decisions that I do not believe benefit the team. I am not trying to imply that they do not care about the team's success.

You said that all of our IFs bar Cav need lessons in how to play as part of a team. Does that not mean that they're not team players? You also insinuated that they're far more selfish than Traore. That's nothing to do with bad decision making. I'm struggling with where this debate is going because the goal posts seem to keep moving, or at least are made out of silly string.

 

[Alan]

You said that all of our IFs bar Cav need lessons in how to play as part of a team. Does that not mean that they're not team players? I'm struggling with where this debate is going because the goal posts seem to keep moving, or at least are made out of silly string.

I'm not moving anything, not knowing how to play as part of a team and not caring about the team are not the same.

 

[Boozad]

I'm not moving anything, not knowing how to play as part of a team and not caring about the team are not the same.

So Jota and Costa don't know how to play as part of a team? And are they far more selfish than Traore?

 

[Premier Quality]

Small samples, if he played 90 minutes he'd lose the ball more than Jota and Costa put together.

That’s probably true. He’d likely score and create a fair bit more than both too though.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

That’s probably true. He’d likely score and create a fair bit more than both too though.

Really.

Why do you think he's not starting right now? Especially on the same side as Doherty.

 

[Alan]

So Jota and Costa don't know how to play as part of a team? And are they far more selfish than Traore?

They are currently playing as if they do not know how to play in this team. Jota has been guilty of this going back to last season. Costa less so but still making too many decisions that involve selfishly holding onto possession and then losing it.

And yes, at the moment I do not think Traore has been as selfish as those two.

 

[Boozad]

That’s probably true. He’d likely score and create a fair bit more though.

Possibly. Probably. Pace scares defenders shitless and he does have an uncanny knack of being able to complete dribbles that really he shouldn't, but with a bit more vision and thought, as has been said, he could play a quick ball and receive it back in acres of space but he doesn't do that. He'd create even more playing smart instead of being an unselfish team player.

 

[Boozad]

They are currently playing as if they do not know how to play in this team. Jota has been guilty of this going back to last season. Costa less so but still making too many decisions that involve selfishly holding onto possession and then losing it.

And yes, at the moment I do not think Traore has been as selfish as those two.

OK. I'm giving up on this one because, well, it's worth giving up on.

 

[Alan]

OK. I'm giving up on this one because, well, it's worth giving up on.

You could just agree to disagree. I don't know why you need to be snarky about it.

 

[Premier Quality]

Well, If you look at the same sample size Booz is saying he’d lose the ball from, he’s also created more chances and scored more goals proportionately too. Fairs fair...

My guess is nuno is trying to play Jota and costa back into form, at the same time as training Adama into understanding the responsibilities of the position, which is new to him.

I’d expect him to be starting soon though, he’s clearly achieving more than the other guys at present.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I’d expect him to be starting soon though, he’s clearly achieving more than the other guys at present.

I think he's very good at the role we have him playing for now.

I'm not sure I want him from the start at 0-0 in an away game when we have 0 wins on the board.

 

[Premier Quality]

Possibly. Probably. Pace scares defenders $#@!less and he does have an uncanny knack of being able to complete dribbles that really he shouldn't, but with a bit more vision and thought, as has been said, he could play a quick ball and receive it back in acres of space but he doesn't do that. He'd create even more playing smart instead of being an unselfish team player.

Players go with their strengths and his strength is very difficult to defend against - that said, he still has loads to learn and improve upon, but we knew that when we signed him, and that’s not going to happen in the space of five games and a month. He’s definitely not perfect, he has loads to learn about playing our system, and playing less as an individual.

So far though, given how his critics were saying he had no end product, I’ve been really pleased with his contribution so far. Still a lot to learn however, but I’d probably say that about all our forward players.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Jota definitely has a tendency to be as selfish/single minded as Traore, it started to shine through probably before Christmas as he realised how easy it could be for him some weeks and he quickly moved away from Douglas more and more. He had that spell just after new year when he looked well off the pace for a few games as teams just started knocking him about and that seemed to exacerbate the issue and he became a one man army trying to prove a point to the detriment of his performances. He doesn't seem anywhere near as involved so far this season and perhaps that's forcing him to try to do too much again so he ends up losing the ball when there are simpler options available. I don't think I've seen him play a single one two with anyone so far this season and they were a real key part of his game to ghost in behind when he first arrived at Wolves.

Costa looks very similar to when he first came back from injury last year, moments of promise but lots of failures mixed in too. Perhaps the step up in quality has knocked his confidence in the same way injury seemed to? There are times he's had the ball in promising positions to get at the opposition and he just doesn't seem to know what he wants to do with it and a moment's hesitation can make a huge difference at this level. You'd think he'd take a big boost from last week when he was able to ruin Mendy a few times but there were similar false dawns post injury last season. Seems odd that he appears to have fragile confidence given how easily brushed off some physical attention in his first season when he was pretty much carrying the team on his own.

Traore is just a head fuck at times, against City he made a great impact but today I'd struggle to praise him for anything before the goal. He tried to run it to some extent every time I saw him get on the ball, almost always with limited success but he never tried anything different. I guess on one hand you can admire the strength of character to keep trying, certainly more strongly willed than Costa, but at the same time there are 10 other guys out there with you providing some alternative options and you should maybe explore them, as should Jota. The bonus from Traore is that he's a physical phenomenon so he can dig himself out of trouble far better than the other two on that basis even when he's made a bad decision or ran down a dead end, I think that's what's nosing him ahead of the other two so far.

Be interesting to see what Cavaleiro can bring when he's fit, think he's got more variation to his game than any of the others so should be much harder to pin down. It took him a while to really hit his stride in England but hopefully there won't be a similar transition period to the PL. Think he could find himself starting most games once fit and try to use him to grind defences down and then use Jota/Costa from the bench against weary defences to build themselves back up.

 

[Boozad]

You could just agree to disagree. I don't know why you need to be snarky about it.

I'm not being snarky Alan I just can't understand how someone can think that Jota and Costa are not team players, or don't know how to play in this team, or make selfish decisions, whichever it is. They're just not playing to the level we expect which is understandable in this league as unless you're Hazard or Salah then you're going to have more mediocre games than standout ones. Neves has been nowhere near as good as last season but he's not getting this kind of treatment, it just smacks of some people getting blinded by Traore's pace and directness and seeing that as 'a good player' as opposed to two of the best we've seen down here for years being 'selfish' and 'not team players' just because they're up against better opponents, like I said earlier it's fucking binary.

 

[malta mick]

Jota definitely has a tendency to be as selfish/single minded as Traore, it started to shine through probably before Christmas as he realised how easy it could be for him some weeks and he quickly moved away from Douglas more and more. He had that spell just after new year when he looked well off the pace for a few games as teams just started knocking him about and that seemed to exacerbate the issue and he became a one man army trying to prove a point to the detriment of his performances. He doesn't seem anywhere near as involved so far this season and perhaps that's forcing him to try to do too much again so he ends up losing the ball when there are simpler options available. I don't think I've seen him play a single one two with anyone so far this season and they were a real key part of his game to ghost in behind when he first arrived at Wolves.

Costa looks very similar to when he first came back from injury last year, moments of promise but lots of failures mixed in too. Perhaps the step up in quality has knocked his confidence in the same way injury seemed to? There are times he's had the ball in promising positions to get at the opposition and he just doesn't seem to know what he wants to do with it and a moment's hesitation can make a huge difference at this level. You'd think he'd take a big boost from last week when he was able to ruin Mendy a few times but there were similar false dawns post injury last season. Seems odd that he appears to have fragile confidence given how easily brushed off some physical attention in his first season when he was pretty much carrying the team on his own.

Traore is just a head fuck at times, against City he made a great impact but today I'd struggle to praise him for anything before the goal. He tried to run it to some extent every time I saw him get on the ball, almost always with limited success but he never tried anything different. I guess on one hand you can admire the strength of character to keep trying, certainly more strongly willed than Costa, but at the same time there are 10 other guys out there with you providing some alternative options and you should maybe explore them, as should Jota. The bonus from Traore is that he's a physical phenomenon so he can dig himself out of trouble far better than the other two on that basis even when he's made a bad decision or ran down a dead end, I think that's what's nosing him ahead of the other two so far.

Be interesting to see what Cavaleiro can bring when he's fit, think he's got more variation to his game than any of the others so should be much harder to pin down. It took him a while to really hit his stride in England but hopefully there won't be a similar transition period to the PL. Think he could find himself starting most games once fit and try to use him to grind defences down and then use Jota/Costa from the bench against weary defences to build themselves back up.

Spot On.

 

[malta mick]

Jota definitely has a tendency to be as selfish/single minded as Traore, it started to shine through probably before Christmas as he realised how easy it could be for him some weeks and he quickly moved away from Douglas more and more. He had that spell just after new year when he looked well off the pace for a few games as teams just started knocking him about and that seemed to exacerbate the issue and he became a one man army trying to prove a point to the detriment of his performances. He doesn't seem anywhere near as involved so far this season and perhaps that's forcing him to try to do too much again so he ends up losing the ball when there are simpler options available. I don't think I've seen him play a single one two with anyone so far this season and they were a real key part of his game to ghost in behind when he first arrived at Wolves.

Costa looks very similar to when he first came back from injury last year, moments of promise but lots of failures mixed in too. Perhaps the step up in quality has knocked his confidence in the same way injury seemed to? There are times he's had the ball in promising positions to get at the opposition and he just doesn't seem to know what he wants to do with it and a moment's hesitation can make a huge difference at this level. You'd think he'd take a big boost from last week when he was able to ruin Mendy a few times but there were similar false dawns post injury last season. Seems odd that he appears to have fragile confidence given how easily brushed off some physical attention in his first season when he was pretty much carrying the team on his own.

Traore is just a head fuck at times, against City he made a great impact but today I'd struggle to praise him for anything before the goal. He tried to run it to some extent every time I saw him get on the ball, almost always with limited success but he never tried anything different. I guess on one hand you can admire the strength of character to keep trying, certainly more strongly willed than Costa, but at the same time there are 10 other guys out there with you providing some alternative options and you should maybe explore them, as should Jota. The bonus from Traore is that he's a physical phenomenon so he can dig himself out of trouble far better than the other two on that basis even when he's made a bad decision or ran down a dead end, I think that's what's nosing him ahead of the other two so far.

Be interesting to see what Cavaleiro can bring when he's fit, think he's got more variation to his game than any of the others so should be much harder to pin down. It took him a while to really hit his stride in England but hopefully there won't be a similar transition period to the PL. Think he could find himself starting most games once fit and try to use him to grind defences down and then use Jota/Costa from the bench against weary defences to build themselves back up.

Spot On.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Will be pleased to see Cav back out there as an option as he brings other benefits, but the fact that we will then have 4 players to fill those 2 positions is a real benefit.

Are they the perfect player in the Premier League - clearly not (that's why they are playing for us now rather than the red hot title favorites)

All of them are not that old that they cannot learn & improve

 

[Parkins left foot]

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Another double post - no idea what this machine is doing tonight!!