West Ham 0 v 1 Wolves: The Verdict Thread

[Tredman]

Can we agree that a) Traore definately isn’t the finished article and has a lot to learn and b) he’s creating chances and has now scored one as well, which is pretty good (and probably better than Diogo and Helder at the moment)?

Spot on.

He's quite clearly our most dangerous player by far, we can whinge and moan about Traore as much as we like, but it won't change the fact that Helder and Jota are nowhere close to him currently in terms of being able to create fear, confusion and goals.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Can we agree that a) Traore definately isn’t the finished article and has a lot to learn and b) he’s creating chances and has now scored one as well, which is pretty good (and probably better than Diogo and Helder at the moment)?

The forum keeps trying to make me post twice at the moment - don’t know why, my posts aren’t THAT good..

Me too
Me too

Sorry. I am a child

But it is happening to me too

 

[Boozad]

Costa gets tackled off the ball with alarming ease. They're both way off their potential and way off the standard we should be accepting from them.

How does that equate to him not being a team player? That's a completely different argument from the one I quoted you on.

 

[Alan]

How does that equate to him not being a team player? That's a completely different argument from the one I quoted you on.

Too often he's tackled off the ball because he's held for too long when a pass backward was available (to Moutinho or Doherty, usually), but he doesn't take it for whatever reason. At least that's how it looks to me.

 

[Tredman]

Too often he's tackled off the ball because he's held for too long when a pass backward was available (to Moutinho or Doherty, usually), but he doesn't take it for whatever reason. At least that's how it looks to me.

Tbf you could be describing any of Traore, Jota or Costa there.

 

[Alan]

Tbf you could be describing any of Traore, Jota or Costa there.

Fair, although I would still maintain that Traore has actually been the least bad about it so far. Of course, that could largely be because he's had the least actual time on the pitch!

I can sort of see what Helder is trying to do tbf; if he breaks that first tackle then there's acres of space to attack, which he took advantage of a couple of times against Mendy last week when he mugged him off in the corners. But when it goes like today and he's losing possession around the halfway line, well, it comes off rather differently.

 

[Boozad]

Too often he's tackled off the ball because he's held for too long when a pass backward was available (to Moutinho or Doherty, usually), but he doesn't take it for whatever reason. At least that's how it looks to me.

Did you see the 90 minutes last week? Costa played brilliantly and contributed massively to a great team performance. And Doherty plays enough balls back to Bennett/Moutinho as it is, we don't need Helder doing it as well. To say Jota and Costa aren't team players is ridiculous, yes they're underperforming in relation to the high standards we know they can hit, but to say Traore is more of a team player than them is just utter bollocks.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Tbf you could be describing any of Traore, Jota or Costa there.

I found myself shouting just fucking cross it more times in the first 4 games than I remembered doing all last season. Our build up needs that quick injection in the final third for me. Costa and Jota are capable of it but haven't done it enough. Doherty just doesn't cross well enough. Jonny is so right footed he cuts inside and the impetus dies. Traore gives that road runner spark and pace and defender's appear scared shitless when he is near the box. Traore has put several dangerous crosses in.

Leo has linked play well, Moutinho just seems to be having fun!

 

[Alan]

Did you see the 90 minutes last week? Costa played brilliantly and contributed massively to a great team performance. And Doherty plays enough balls back to Bennett/Moutinho as it is, we don't need Helder doing it as well. To say Jota and Costa aren't team players is ridiculous, yes they're underperforming in relation to the high standards we know they can hit, but to say Traore is more of a team player than them is just utter bollocks.

I did, and I was pretty forthright even then that I didn't think Costa was very good apart from the aforementioned two moments when he really put Mendy on his ass.

If we want to get into Traore vs. Jota vs. Costa in terms of their play for the team, that's probably an argument you could frame in a lot of ways, but IMO Traore has definitely been the most effective of the three of them so far and is far less selfish than some reports on here seem to paint him.

 

[YoungWolf]

Costa played really well last week I thought. He actually did alright today, I just want him to be a bit more confident. He has so much ability but sometimes I still feel like he is playing within himself. I think he will improve as time goes. Same for Jota (who doesn't look 100% fit to me)

 

[Tredman]

I found myself shouting just fucking cross it more times in the first 4 games than I remembered doing all last season. Our build up needs that quick injection in the final third for me. Costa and Jota are capable of it but haven't done it enough. Doherty just doesn't cross well enough. Jonny is so right footed he cuts inside and the impetus dies. Traore gives that road runner spark and pace and defender's appear scared shitless when he is near the box. Traore has put several dangerous crosses in.

Leo has linked play well, Moutinho just seems to be having fun!

Sure I saw a stat last week saying we had the second most crosses into the box of any team.

Either way, it's not our game, we were most successful last season by using pull backs to the IFs

 

[Boozad]

I did, and I was pretty forthright even then that I didn't think Costa was very good apart from the aforementioned two moments when he really put Mendy on his ass.

If we want to get into Traore vs. Jota vs. Costa in terms of their play for the team, that's probably an argument you could frame in a lot of ways, but IMO Traore has definitely been the most effective of the three of them so far and is far less selfish than some reports on here seem to paint him.

So are Jota and Costa not team players?

 

[Alan]

So are Jota and Costa not team players?

I've been on about Jota being too selfish since, like, last January or so.

Costa I don't think is selfish in the same way but needs to be more aware of his positioning on the pitch when he's shirking easy passes to open support.

 

[Boozad]

Sure I saw a stat last week saying we had the second most crosses into the box of any team.

Either way, it's not our game, we were most successful last season by using pull backs to the IFs

We crossed loads last season, we're just doing it more this season as the IFs have less space to work in so our tactic has morphed slightly. In other words Jota and Costa are no longer team players.

 

[Premier Quality]

Costa played really well last week I thought. He actually did alright today, I just want him to be a bit more confident. He has so much ability but sometimes I still feel like he is playing within himself. I think he will improve as time goes. Same for Jota (who doesn't look 100% fit to me)

Agree with all that. I think at the moment, Traore just has more end product...

Pretty confident Jota will come good though, he clearly has the quality, and I very much hope Costa will too, and get back to his pre Injury form, he doesn’t run with the ball like he used to and worries me a bit.

 

[Tredman]

We crossed loads last season, we're just doing it more this season as the IFs have less space to work in so our tactic has morphed slightly. In other words Jota and Costa are no longer team players.

I like it, we're more unpredictable this season and able to change approach (partly due to Traore being unpredictable). I do think, though, we do need to have someone in the box if we are going to cross it - a couple of times today we crossed it and there was no one in the 18 yard box.

 

[Alan]

We crossed loads last season, we're just doing it more this season as the IFs have less space to work in so our tactic has morphed slightly. In other words Jota and Costa are no longer team players.

Think you're mischaracterizing what I've said a bit.

 

[Boozad]

I think people are overlooking the fact that decent Premier League teams will close down the IFs with two or three players on a regular basis which gives Costa and Jota a lot less time than they had last season, there is less space to work in and they can't run rings round players with ease like they're used to. Their game has had to change as has ours so their performance has dropped a bit, they will adapt. Amazing that Costa had the most joy against an ultra attacking team in City when he had a lot of room to use, but if you look at the Leicester and West Ham games Jota and Costa had little space with not many 'easy' attacking passes. They either try to push forward and make ground or pass it backwards, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Traore is being looked on more favourably because he'll put his head down and run and run and run REALLY fast. Yes he gets some good positions and scored a good goal today but 80% it ends up with him losing the ball. It's as fucking binary an argument as I've seen.

 

[Boozad]

Think you're mischaracterizing what I've said a bit.

No I'm not.

It's not consistency, it's learning how to play as part of a team.

All of our inside forwards bar Cav could use lessons in that at the moment tbf.

I still thought Adama played as a member of a team moreso than Jota and Costa today. Just needs to do it, *ahem*, consistently.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Traore is being looked on more favourably because he'll put his head down and run and run and run REALLY fast. Yes he gets some good positions and scored a good goal today but 80% it ends up with him losing the ball. It's as fucking binary an argument as I've seen.

And he's only playing in the last 20-25 minutes most of the time.