Trump

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

There was only 1 atrocity committed in Virginia Ray, and that was the one where a guy ploughed his car into a group of protesters.

Your argument that BLM group committed a hate crime is weak at best.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Crown Prosecution Service state:-

A Hate Incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someones prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender.


Not all hate incidents will amount to criminal offences, but those that do become hate crimes. The Association of Chief Police Officers and the CPS have agreed a common definition of hate crime: "Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race; religion or perceived religion; sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation; disability or perceived disability and any crime motivated by hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender."

 

[Deleted Cyber]

It's false equivalence. These white supremacists don't even hide what they are.

Like I said yesterday, Trump relies on these people for support and anyone who voted for him knew what bed they were climbing into, even if they don't hold racist views themselves. Same with UKIP/Brexit over here. Neo-Nazis support Trump, racists support UKIP, you vote for them and you automatically align yourself with those people.

I think that is too simplistic

Lets try a few sentences.

I voted labour. Communists and far left wingers voted labour. Therefore I align myself with communists.
I voted Clinton. People who support CND voted Clinton. Therefore I am against nulcear weapons
I am a muslim. I have muslim belifs. ISIS are mulsim. I therefore align myself with ISIS.

I agree. People with racist tendencies would have voted Brexit. White supremicists voted Trump. But they really are , fortunately, the minority. Now I will try the sentences again with my caveat

I voted labour. Communists and far left wingers voted labour. Fortunately , they are a minority.
I voted Clinton. People who support CND voted Clinton. Fortuntaely they are a minority
I am a muslim. I have muslim beliefs. ISIS are mulsim. Fortunately they are a minority

That looks a whole lot better, even though its just as simplistic.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But Trump is a racist (I think, anyway, as well as a mysogynist, a xenophobe, a narcissist, a demagogue and a hundred other things) and if you choose to enable him, then the blood is on your hands.

Farage is a racist and I don't think you can wash away the taint of tacitly voting for his vision of Britain even if you did it for what you perceive to be the right reasons (ie, you dislike the EU on actual political grounds). He wants to foster division. The blood of Jo Cox is on his hands, not that he would ever admit it. His followers and the fringes off that are simply appalling. But it's becoming mainstream on both sides of the Atlantic.

Well-educated, reasonable people should not vote for candidates like that because the agenda they push is deeply dangerous.

It's not just a race thing, Tory voters should be ashamed about the economic and social legacy of what they have enabled since 2010. I didn't vote Labour in 2015 because they essentially wanted a slightly toned down version of the same thing.

 

[Johnny75]

I said the president should have condemned those people who acted outside of the law. But but by definitoin a hate crime is a hate crime.
I'll pass your message onto the parents of a child who killed himself for coming out to be gay after being bullied at school. Is that hate crime any less as a child died because he was bullied upon?

I have no idea why you've put your third sentence in. What is the relevance to the situation in Virginia?

At the risk of repeating myself again, what hate crime did BLM contribute to at the weekend in Virginia?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

But Trump is a racist (I think, anyway, as well as a mysogynist, a xenophobe, a narcissist, a demagogue and a hundred other things) and if you choose to enable him, then the blood is on your hands.

Farage is a racist and I don't think you can wash away the taint of tacitly voting for his vision of Britain even if you did it for what you perceive to be the right reasons (ie, you dislike the EU on actual political grounds). He wants to foster division. The blood of Jo Cox is on his hands, not that he would ever admit it. His followers and the fringes off that are simply appalling. But it's becoming mainstream on both sides of the Atlantic.

Well-educated, reasonable people should not vote for candidates like that because the agenda they push is deeply dangerous.

It's not just a race thing, Tory voters should be ashamed about the economic and social legacy of what they have enabled since 2010. I didn't vote Labour in 2015 because they essentially wanted a slightly toned down version of the same thing.

With that arguement then you cant have party politics. I dont know anyone who is 100% labour or 100% Tory or 100% liberal. We all agree with bits and then vote for the closest match. That means there is often lots we dont agree with about our candidate but the candidate gives us the most amount of what we want to see. I think for that very reason your example is too simplistic and incorrectly tars people. Those labels become stereotypes and before you know it "all people who voted Brexit are racist" all "terrorists are muslim" all "crime is committed by black people". I find it a throw back to the 70's and a journey I dont wish to embark on.

I think all people regarding of race or beliefs who commit acts of terror are vile and should be condemned as such. But I am not going to pigeon hole any group. All humans are equally culpable and have the equal ability to commit atrocities. Fortunately , the very vast majority of us dont. Its as simple as that. Just because I am capable of taking life , doesnt mean I should or will.

 

[YoungWolf]

A hate crime is (as in the definition Johnny supplied) is about a crime motivated by prejudice, what part of the Black Lives Matter campaign is prejudiced? It's for equal rights.

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

I have no idea why you've put your third sentence in. What is the relevance to the situation in Virginia?

At the risk of repeating myself again, what hate crime did BLM contribute to at the weekend in Virginia?

I guess you're missing my point. You can't categorise hate crime. With 1 being more severe than the other. Hate crime is deplorable and despicable regardless of the message.
And it's a valid point. Just because it has no relevance to the weekends situation doesn't make it any less deplorable.
And just because the movement did not contribute the past weekend doesn't mean they do not atrritube themselves to any hate crime whatsoever.
So you're ok with any other forms of hate crime so long as it does not include race?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think for that very reason your example is too simplistic and incorrectly tars people. Those labels become stereotypes and before you know it "all people who voted Brexit are racist" all "terrorists are muslim" all "crime is committed by black people". I find it a throw back to the 70's and a journey I dont wish to embark on.

I didn't say that though, I'm sorry if I implied it. It comes back to the same thing. All people who voted Brexit are not racists. All racists voted Brexit. It's an alignment issue.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

have a read make your own minds up. http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

 

[Johnny75]

I guess you're missing my point. You can't categorise hate crime. With 1 being more severe than the other. Hate crime is deplorable and despicable regardless of the message.
And it's a valid point. Just because it has no relevance to the weekends situation doesn't make it any less deplorable.
And just because the movement did not contribute the past weekend doesn't mean they do not atrritube themselves to any hate crime whatsoever.
So you're ok with any other forms of hate crime so long as it does not include race?

I have no idea on the relevance to anything you have written there and it has no bearing on anything at the weekend.

The reason we have a variable term sentencing system is because not all crimes are the same. I don't understand how you can make that assumption that all hate crime is the same? Is murder the same as a threat of violence? Both can be motivated by hate but they are not equal yet both are hate crimes.

The POTUS put all issues at the weekend into one statement, he is wrong, the white supremacist Nazi scum killed a person and maimed others. He did not condemn this - that is not presidential and it almost gives the white supremacist Nazi scum a voice on a par with a group who advocate equal rights, can you not see how wrong that is?

I'll ask until I keep getting an answer, 'what did BLM contribute to hate crime in Virginia?'

 

[Johnny75]

have a read make your own minds up. http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

Definitely a black version of the KKK right there....

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

I have no idea on the relevance to anything you have written there and it has no bearing on anything at the weekend.

The reason we have a variable term sentencing system is because not all crimes are the same. I don't understand how you can make that assumption that all hate crime is the same? Is murder the same as a threat of violence? Both can be motivated by hate but they are not equal yet both are hate crimes.

The POTUS put all issues at the weekend into one statement, he is wrong, the white supremacist Nazi scum killed a person and maimed others. He did not condemn this - that is not presidential and it almost gives the white supremacist Nazi scum a voice on a par with a group who advocate equal rights, can you not see how wrong that is?

I'll ask until I keep getting an answer, 'what did BLM contribute to hate crime in Virginia?'

You clearly did not read my response. And likewise didn't answer my question. So you are quite ok with any hate crime so long as it does not include race?
You ok with special needs kids being bullied on a school bus? The overweight kid being bullied on the bus from school?
You seem to think all hate crime revolves around race and it clearly doesn't

 

[Johnny75]

You clearly did not read my response. And likewise didn't answer my question. So you are quite ok with any hate crime so long as it does not include race?
You ok with special needs kids being bullied on a school bus? The overweight kid being bullied on the bus from school?
You seem to think all hate crime revolves around race and it clearly doesn't

I don't believe I've said I'm OK with any hate crime and this isn't about my view on hate crime (which is why I provided the definition). I'm not OK with you derailing this discussion into something it isn't. This is about race and it is about the POTUS and it is about Nazi scum. You might want to deal with those issues which you are avoiding and trying to deflect. Why is that?

Why are you refusing to answer my question? Here it is again for you.

what hate crime did BLM contribute to at the weekend in Virginia?

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

I don't believe I've said I'm OK with any hate crime. I'm not OK with you derailing this discussion into something it isn't. This is about race and it is about the POTUS and it is about Nazi scum. You might want to deal with those issues which you are avoiding and trying to deflect. Why is that?

Why are you refusing to answer my question? Here it is again for you.

Not derailing the discussion what so ever. And don't try to make me something into what I am not by insinuating that I'm ok with what happened the weekend. And I'll say once again take a look at my response with regards to your question.

 

[Johnny75]

Not derailing the discussion what so ever. And don't try to make me something into what I am not by insinuating that I'm ok with what happened the weekend. And I'll say once again take a look at my response with regards to your question.

I must be missing something as I can't see anywhere where you've described the hate crime BLM contributed to. Could you put it down again?

 

[Lupo]

Trump retweets then deletes a picture of a train hitting a CNN reporter...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...to-show-train-hitting-cnn-reporter/ar-AAq8OBE

 

[Alan]

He's since gone back to laying blame on both the "alt-right" and something called the "alt-left", which isn't a thing.

Apparently the counter-protestors "charged at the [alt-right] with clubs in their hands".

Just. Just fuck off with that, you incomprehensible, spineless, entitled, racist, sexist, unapologetic rapist cunt.

I wish I could say I was furious but that wouldn't really capture it. I am disgusted and enraged, but more than anything, I am ashamed that this man represents me on the global stage. It is an unforgivable tragedy that we (Americans) have let this happen.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He's so, so stupid.

 

[Alan]

I might actually vomit.