Trump

[Johnny75]

Nobody believes that they're the bad guy, Ben.

That doesn't mean they aren't.

Your view on evil doesn't sit well with me. For me Nazi's are evil, white supremacists are evil. They actively want people of a different race/ religion hung and subjugated to violence. This is the same with ISIS.

Having those views may only mean you have evil views but enacting them makes you evil. The guy who deliberately ran over protesters perpetrated an evil act as do ISIS on a daily basis when they murder and rape innocents.

 

[Tredman]

That doesn't mean they aren't.

Your view on evil doesn't sit well with me. For me Nazi's are evil, white supremacists are evil. They actively want people of a different race/ religion hung and subjugated to violence. This is the same with ISIS.

Having those views may only mean you have evil views but enacting them makes you evil. The guy who deliberately ran over protesters perpetrated an evil act as do ISIS on a daily basis when they murder and rape innocents.

Saying someone is 'evil' gives them an excuse - its like they have no choice in the matter. They have a choice, they chose to be shit heads - they might be a product of their environment, but they still made the choice to go out an kill and hate

 

[Johnny75]

Saying someone is 'evil' gives them an excuse - its like they have no choice in the matter. They have a choice, they chose to be shit heads - they might be a product of their environment, but they still made the choice to go out an kill and hate

I always thought you chose to commit evil acts therefore become evil, no excuse but a straight choice. Hitler wasn't born evil but he became it as a product of his environment and warped view of the world. Hitler and the rest of the Nazi high command certainly were evil men.

I think it's only in the biblical sense of evil that you are talking about and I'm not sure anybody prescribes to that theory bar the religious nutjobs we are talking about.

 

[b3h]

Terrorists are X

Define X in a normal day to day conversation?

 

[lemonjelly]

Evil isn't an intrinsic characteristic. The acts committed are evil, not the people committing them.

In Johnny's example, hitler/nazi high command committed numerous evil acts. That doesn't (for me) make them evil.

 

[Kenny]

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

Remind me what the Black Lives Matter group did that can be considered an atrocity?
IMO the only act of terrorism was when a far right supporting white supremacist dickhead ploughed his car into a group of protesters.

You can't legitimize one group from another. Hate crime is hate crime regardless of the message. To my knowledge just bacuse BLM movement hasn't killed anyone does not make that certain group any more desirable than the next
.

 

[Tredman]

You can't legitimize one group from another. Hate crime is hate crime regardless of the message. To my knowledge just bacuse BLM movement hasn't killed anyone does not make that certain group any more desirable than the next
.

Ok I'll bite, how is the Black Lives Matter movement hate crime? Is it a hate crime to say black lives are equal to white?

 

[Johnny75]

You can't legitimize one group from another. Hate crime is hate crime regardless of the message. To my knowledge just bacuse BLM movement hasn't killed anyone does not make that certain group any more desirable than the next
.

What hate crime did BLM contribute to?

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

What hate crime did BLM contribute to?

What do you consider to be a hate crime?

 

[Johnny75]

What do you consider to be a hate crime?

I think the legal definition is better than my opinion.

a crime motivated by racial, sexual, or other prejudice, typically one involving violence.

I would say driving a car as one person did into the crowd and killing somebody can be classed as a hate crime. I would also say that telling the vice mayor of the town you are marching in you are going to hang him from a tree is also a hate crime.

So I'll ask again as you completely avoided the question 'what hate crime did BLM contribute too?'

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

I think the legal definition is better than my opinion.



I would say driving a car as one person did into the crowd and killing somebody can be classed as a hate crime. I would also say that telling the vice mayor of the town you are marching in you are going to hang him from a tree is also a hate crime.

So I'll ask again as you completely avoided the question 'what hate crime did BLM contribute too?'

So therefore by definition a crime saying kill cops and white people is also a hate crime?

 

[Johnny75]

So therefore by definition a crime saying kill cops and white people is also a hate crime?

If said directly to a police officer as a threat or a white person then you could argue it is as it is a threat. If it's just a point of view shouted at nobody in particular then not a hate crime but certainly an incitement of violence.

Of the two crimes I find it strange that you have chosen people saying something to another rather than a person killing one person and seriously injuring others to illustrate the point.

Do you think somebody driving their car and killing somebody else in the name of white supremacy is in any way the same as pushing, shoving and shouting at people? Do you think that crime should be dealt with in the same way by the President of the United States?

Do you think that having Nazi views and legitimising white supremacy is a view that should be held in modern society? And not condemned by POTUS?

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

I'm not saying any of those points. The death of any anyone in any circumstances is horrific even more so with the narrative that as seen the past weekend. A push and a shove could easily turn deadly.
How do you distinguish a point of view versus a threat?
My point being is that a hate crime is a hate crime.

 

[Tredman]

BLM doesn't advocate killing police and white people, there may be a (very) few extremists associating themselves with BLM, but other than that that its essentially an equal rights movement. That's the very opposite of the alt-right, KKK etc.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's false equivalence. These white supremacists don't even hide what they are.

Like I said yesterday, Trump relies on these people for support and anyone who voted for him knew what bed they were climbing into, even if they don't hold racist views themselves. Same with UKIP/Brexit over here. Neo-Nazis support Trump, racists support UKIP, you vote for them and you automatically align yourself with those people.

 

[Johnny75]

I'm not saying any of those points. The death of any anyone in any circumstances is horrific even more so with the narrative that as seen the past weekend. A push and a shove could easily turn deadly.
How do you distinguish a point of view versus a threat?
My point being is that a hate crime is a hate crime.

One is aimed directly at a person the other isn't.

So the driving of a car to kill somebody is the same as somebody shouting abuse? And you think the POTUS shouldn't have distinguished between the two? You also think it's acceptable for the POTUS to not denounce Nazi's and their views and worse still to equate them with equal rights?

You can't seriously be saying that one crime is the same as another and that the POTUS shouldn't be condemning this? Nobody can be serious with that thought can they?

I'll ask again, what hate crime did those attending the rally for BLM contribute to?

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

It's false equivalence. These white supremacists don't even hide what they are.

Like I said yesterday, Trump relies on these people for support and anyone who voted for him knew what bed they were climbing into, even if they don't hold racist views themselves. Same with UKIP/Brexit over here. Neo-Nazis support Trump, racists support UKIP, you vote for them and you automatically align yourself with those people.

Dan I agree and I said the same myself also yesterday.

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

One is aimed directly at a person the other isn't.

So the driving of a car to kill somebody is the same as somebody shouting abuse? And you think the POTUS shouldn't have distinguished between the two? You also think it's acceptable for the POTUS to not denounce Nazi's and their views and worse still to equate them with equal rights?

You can't seriously be saying that one crime is the same as another and that the POTUS shouldn't be condemning this? Nobody can be serious with that thought can they?

I'll ask again, what hate crime did those attending the rally for BLM contribute to?

I said the president should have condemned those people who acted outside of the law. But but by definitoin a hate crime is a hate crime.
I'll pass your message onto the parents of a child who killed himself for coming out to be gay after being bullied at school. Is that hate crime any less as a child died because he was bullied upon?