Transfer Speculation Thread 2014/15

[The Saturday Boy]

The other bit that people seem to forget is that most players have agents - the club could have said absolutely nothing and other clubs would definitely have been aware that we were interested. If we were only interested in players that nobody else was interested in they probably wouldn't be very good.

We will have signed players other clubs wanted, other clubs have signed players we wanted. That's how it has always been except now it is discussed at length on the internet.

 

[So Long Architect]

I'm just reading Michael Calvin's book The Nowhere Men about professional scouts and football recruitment practices. (I say "professional", it seems most scouts get paid little more than petrol money). What's clear is that there are no secrets in football. Every club knows exactly what all the other clubs are doing and who they are interested in. It's an eye-opening book, for me anyway.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

He's gone back home to collect some stuff and make arrangements to find accommodation up here. He'll be back up Wolverhampton in the morning ready to sign the contract. Simple really.

If only.......

 

[Paul]

I'm just reading Michael Calvin's book The Nowhere Men about professional scouts and football recruitment practices. (I say "professional", it seems most scouts get paid little more than petrol money). What's clear is that there are no secrets in football. Every club knows exactly what all the other clubs are doing and who they are interested in. It's an eye-opening book, for me anyway.

One of our reps used to be a scout for Sheffield United, he used to watch under 9's, its amazing the things they could tell by watching them. Also there was a funny story when he lost his notebook and had to explain to police why he'd got a list of childrens names with marks out of ten by the side of them and comprehensive notes about them

 

[big mean bunny]

One of our reps used to be a scout for Sheffield United, he used to watch under 9's, its amazing the things they could tell by watching them. Also there was a funny story when he lost his notebook and had to explain to police why he'd got a list of childrens names with marks out of ten by the side of them and comprehensive notes about them

I was involved last season with the RUFC grassroots scout network due to my role at work (in a school) was before I started training to teach and was considering trying to move permanently into sport/coaching. Was really interesting to see how a club worked, scouting network was pretty extensive for the local area and run almost entirely by old blokes that looked the same, hence why they brought myself and a few other younger ones on board, if you got a player onto an academic contract you got £250 quid, if they kept him after his 10 week initially contract you got another £250, and then you got £250 if he signed at 16, and £1000 if he ever played for the first team. They never took on anyone I past forward, however they were active in sending people to watch players in the leagues and surrounding areas.

Mentioned it a few times, however if you ever want to the ground on a Sunday to watch the youth teamers (which you were required to do once a month to see the standard) there would also be Man City and Everton scouts at virtually every game, with Everton I was told (so word of mouth rather than fact) that they are like the Russian secret service and know everything about every player in about a 250 mile radius of Liverpool, and that there transfer portfolios on British based players will include extensive material from scouts from the players youth and reserve matches they have seen.

 

[Johnny75]

Calvin's book is brilliant and a fantastic reflection of scouting in all its glory.

Scouting for the first team is very different to youth players and I think most fans don't know or want to know that, they think recruitment just happens.

 

[Quirkafleeg]

Any confirmation from a reliable source that Jess Lingaard was at Molineux tonight ?

 

[So Long Architect]

I was involved last season with the RUFC grassroots scout network due to my role at work (in a school) was before I started training to teach and was considering trying to move permanently into sport/coaching. Was really interesting to see how a club worked, scouting network was pretty extensive for the local area and run almost entirely by old blokes that looked the same, hence why they brought myself and a few other younger ones on board, if you got a player onto an academic contract you got £250 quid, if they kept him after his 10 week initially contract you got another £250, and then you got £250 if he signed at 16, and £1000 if he ever played for the first team. They never took on anyone I past forward, however they were active in sending people to watch players in the leagues and surrounding areas.

Mentioned it a few times, however if you ever want to the ground on a Sunday to watch the youth teamers (which you were required to do once a month to see the standard) there would also be Man City and Everton scouts at virtually every game, with Everton I was told (so word of mouth rather than fact) that they are like the Russian secret service and know everything about every player in about a 250 mile radius of Liverpool, and that there transfer portfolios on British based players will include extensive material from scouts from the players youth and reserve matches they have seen.

Yeah, in Calvin's book Everton come across as the daddies of the scouting game.

 

[Johnny75]

Yeah, in Calvin's book Everton come across as the daddies of the scouting game.

You mean in the youth scouting? I thought he gave Brentford and Arsenal a better write up. And the first team stuff is quite evenly balanced.

I would say Everton are no better on a first team level than any other Prem club and certainly not at the top. What he doesn't mention in the book is the foreign scouts that are over here and the foreign clubs that employ English scouts, particularly the Germans and Spanish.

 

[big mean bunny]

You mean in the youth scouting? I thought he gave Brentford and Arsenal a better write up. And the first team stuff is quite evenly balanced.

I would say Everton are no better on a first team level than any other Prem club and certainly not at the top. What he doesn't mention in the book is the foreign scouts that are over here and the foreign clubs that employ English scouts, particularly the Germans and Spanish.

When I started at Rotherham the then head of academy, told us about a club he had been to see if Holland, he wouldn't name them, but said they were an established Erdeversie club, who operate a youth budget of about 400k (which is similar to Rotherham). This Dutch club however, have been prolific at club developed players, and the reason this was attributed to was because they hold community scout days, were they train anyone who wants to scout for them, on the principles of the club, what they look for at different age ranges, what an intrinsic football ability is, and what weak elements are coachable.

Because of this, they have an almost army of scouts, and an efficient way of working with that, so virtually no players in there local area get missed. It isn't uncommon for academy sides in our area to lose to youth sides from either non league sides, or the massive the youth clubs that seem to dominate at every level, I appreciate that it shouldn't be reflective of ability, but there must be youth players in those successful grassroots sides that would probably be better than an academy player, however this short of situation for this dutch side doesn't happen.

 

[So Long Architect]

You mean in the youth scouting? I thought he gave Brentford and Arsenal a better write up. And the first team stuff is quite evenly balanced.

I would say Everton are no better on a first team level than any other Prem club and certainly not at the top. What he doesn't mention in the book is the foreign scouts that are over here and the foreign clubs that employ English scouts, particularly the Germans and Spanish.

I wasn't really thinking in terms of the quality of the players they get in, more the sophistication of the Everton operation. They seem to be leading the way. Not a major thing, just an observation. Liverpool seem to be a bit of a basket case though.

 

[YoungWolf]

Saw that book in the shop, really ought to get it. Sounds a great read.

What I'd be interested to know is in other countries how many players do clubs sign compared to here. For instance, Spurs signed around 25 boys for the u9s this season (I know this because two of them came from me). They play 5-a-side at that age if I'm not wrong so ot sure how they work it, and if it's a good thing or bad thing? Does the quality get diluted or is it giving more boys a chance to become better footballer?

At La Masia I think Barcelona sign a lot more but then they join their school as well as the academy?

 

[Johnny75]

That sounds like a quality way of doing things BMB. I think there is so much to learn from Europe in scouting players of all ages and the clubs in the UK are, as a rule, pretty average about it.

Yes SLA, Everton have an extensive operation and a stats system that worked for Moyes. I liked Barry Evans of Fulham approach to following players around and some of the mental stuff is just not known enough. Some managers are utterly backward in their scouting and others are downright corrupt, with agents and payments, not illegal but not far off.

Oddly enough Webber was a Liverpool scout at the time of writing I think. I agree that Commoli (and Baldini) turned their clubs into a mess when recruiting based on metrics that just didn't work. The metrics they used were just pure guesswork.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Oddly enough Webber was a Liverpool scout at the time of writing I think. I agree that Commoli (and Baldini) turned their clubs into a mess when recruiting based on metrics that just didn't work. The metrics they used were just pure guesswork.

They aren't much better now. I find the concept of Moneyball fascinating but they have taken the baseball model and tried to port it straight over, it just doesn't work. A system working on the same fundamental principles is great but you are not going to find statistically great footballers that fly under the radar and move around for buttons. Balotelli for instance has been steadily decreasing in value over the last five years (despite being at his theoretical peak, and the market generally continually inflating) for a multitude of good reasons.

 

[Johnny75]

This is what confuses me, the Americans have already tried using metrics in more dynamic games (Am football, basketball) and found it had limited use. To try it in football without properly defining parameters is madness. I admire them for trying but to spend the huge sums of money they have without properly scouting players is crackers.

Strange how Man Utd couldn't adapt to Moyes system either.

I do worry a little about our own scouting, it is clearly better than Mick's time, which at its kindest could be called antiquated but I'm not sure we are buying correctly yet and are buying some players badly.

 

[Langers]

Twitter rumours (hopefully complete BS) that Rotherham are in for Golbourne. Surely not?!

 

[Kenny]

Based on 4 Rotherham players following him on Twitter

 

[YoungWolf]

We'd be mad to sell one of the best full backs in the division. Apparently he is back at the start of February?

 

[Langers]

Based on 4 Rotherham players following him on Twitter

Maybe they like his kit designs?

 

[Lycan]

I will be furious if we sell Scott Golbourne. Hopefully it is just twitter BS.