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The Manager Sacked/Hired Thread 2022/23

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Maybe they are hoping for a load of Chelsea loanees like he got at Derby. I think it would be an appointment celebrated by Derby fans as the 11 point season might well end up in play.
Only 2 PL loanees allowed and they already have Gilmour that he knows.

It’s a good appointment as he’s clearly a good coach. I don’t think he’ll keep them up as the squad just isn’t good enough but maybe he fancies the challenge.

Why people keep linking playing careers with coaching careers is beyond me. Surely Klopp’s, Wenger and Tuchel have dispelled this myth by now.
 
No one denies Shankly was socialist but it’s a complete non sequitur.
Football is a microcosm of life, no? That's what makes it so compelling, to me anyway. A football manager is a mini dictator in a way over his squad. It's not surprising to me ones who value collective effort produce stronger collectives than those who value the individual.

I do think there's something in it, the number of great managers that profess left wing views is higher than it would be if you were to take the same number of people off the street and ask them their opinions on things.
 
A really interesting path of thought to ponder. No chance I can do it tonight, but I will give it thought and respond if I can
 
Isn't it a wildly held view that Lampard was a good coach of the Chelsea youth, and that in a team less hungry for immediate success his policy of blooding youth players into the senior team would have been fruitful?
 
Why people keep linking playing careers with coaching careers is beyond me. Surely Klopp’s, Wenger and Tuchel have dispelled this myth by now.
Thought I’d have a look through Wikipedia at Bundesliga managers and the majority haven’t had much of a playing career and even the ones who have had a decent one have only been playing in Switzerland or Austria. Maybe the penny has dropped there?
 
Thought I’d have a look through Wikipedia at Bundesliga managers and the majority haven’t had much of a playing career and even the ones who have had a decent one have only been playing in Switzerland or Austria. Maybe the penny has dropped there?
Their youth system is very competitive in a way that it doesn’t seem to be seen as a risk to promote the U19 coach to a first team role
 
Isn't it a wildly held view that Lampard was a good coach of the Chelsea youth, and that in a team less hungry for immediate success his policy of blooding youth players into the senior team would have been fruitful?
I can’t stand the man, but I thought both his Derby and Chelsea teams played decent football to be fair. Defensively not brilliant at times though which isn’t necessarily a good sign for Norwich!
 
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Their youth system is very competitive in a way that it doesn’t seem to be seen as a risk to promote the U19 coach to a first team role
To add to this I'm pretty sure the coaching badges are subsidised so cost pennies to get UEFA B level. I think the A license is normalised across UEFA but then you need a club to do that anyway.

It means the knowledge base of coaches is far higher across a wider section of society. Therefore more opportunities for people who haven't played rather than the closed shop rubbish we have here.

It's another thing our money grabbing FA have got wrong (I realise this is the socialist coming out in me).
 
To add to this I'm pretty sure the coaching badges are subsidised so cost pennies to get UEFA B level. I think the A license is normalised across UEFA but then you need a club to do that anyway.

It means the knowledge base of coaches is far higher across a wider section of society. Therefore more opportunities for people who haven't played rather than the closed shop rubbish we have here.

It's another thing our money grabbing FA have got wrong (I realise this is the socialist coming out in me).
Yeah, looking to get onto the A licence in the next year or so but it’s not gonna be cheap!! (Let’s hope I can get it funded by my club)

uefa B was about £550 here (in 2018 anyway)
 
Football is a microcosm of life, no? That's what makes it so compelling, to me anyway. A football manager is a mini dictator in a way over his squad. It's not surprising to me ones who value collective effort produce stronger collectives than those who value the individual.

I do think there's something in it, the number of great managers that profess left wing views is higher than it would be if you were to take the same number of people off the street and ask them their opinions on things.
No not in the slightest, I think you trying to shoehorn something into place, you are talking about a sport that is historically working class and then surprised that the cream of management (all of whom have climbed up the ranks) have socialist views, for example I am pretty sure that the 100 worst managers that have ever graced the game, the majority of those have a socialist leaning, by your logic Christians make the best managers, as do right handed people, white people, males, able bodies people etc, they all fit your criteria
I cannot see how you consider football a microcosm of life (unless you have a very wealthy and fortunate life ? )
 
Aye it’s nothing like real life - football, at player level, is very much a meritocracy. Fuck that in real life.
 
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I cannot see how you consider football a microcosm of life (unless you have a very wealthy and fortunate life ? )
I don't accept that because football as an industry is a lot richer than the rest of society, it can't be viewed as a microcosm, everything is relative. The UK is a lot richer than a lot of other countries around the world, but I'm sure on a human level, society operates along broadly similar lines. Humans, regardless of material wealth, are motivated by the same hopes and fears are they not?

Sorry for the long quote here but Jean Paul Sartre explains why football is a metaphor for life a lot better than I can:

"Football: the most loved sport, the most hated, the most talked about… We have always been a people of coaches, but often we focus only on the “external” aspect of football, on victories and defeats. In reality, football is much more than that!

It’s a complex game, full of facets and many of the aspects and factors of this game are similar to those that we find in everyday life. We can consider football, in a sense, as a metaphor for our lives: there are many similarities between what is part of football (rules, aspects, roles, etc.) and our everyday life, that is, the society in which we live, the academic world, work, our family.

You could compare the game of football to a school of life, where you can learn from an early age to be in a group, to make sacrifices, to be responsible, to be altruistic (those who never pass the ball can be considered selfish in some cases), to be an example for their companions (especially by the captain of the team), to be loyal, and especially to be humble.

Let’s look specifically at some of these similarities:

The rules: in football there are rules to be respected as well as in life, those who do not respect them, for example when you commit a foul or an irregularity, is first warned and then expelled. Even in life, those who do not respect the rules are punished.

The objectives: one of the objectives of a team is to score goals, that is, to achieve victory. Even in life we can achieve different goals such as graduating, finding a job we like, changing house, realizing our dreams and our desires.

Conflicts: even in football there can be internal conflicts between players, for example when they do not get along with each other or when they have problems with the coach. In life, conflicts can occur in any area of our lives and we must learn to overcome them.

Group management: an essential element in a team is the management of the entire group, because the effectiveness of the team depends on the unity of the players and group play. Even in life, in society, in the work environment, at school or in the family, the management of the group is fundamental to improve the quality of the group itself.

Competence: those who play better than others are put on the field and will play more games. In society, at work or at school, those who are better are generally more successful.

We could go on for a long time talking about values like sacrifice, respect… Thinking of football as a metaphor for life, we can see how this sport so followed, like all team sports, becomes something more than a group game, because each sport “conveys” inner aspects very important for personal and professional growth, such as motivation, the sense of sacrifice, personal responsibility, respect for others."


No not in the slightest, I think you trying to shoehorn something into place, you are talking about a sport that is historically working class and then surprised that the cream of management (all of whom have climbed up the ranks) have socialist views, for example I am pretty sure that the 100 worst managers that have ever graced the game, the majority of those have a socialist leaning, by your logic Christians make the best managers, as do right handed people, white people, males, able bodies people etc, they all fit your criteria

Correlation does not imply causation, I understand that. It's just my belief that to a large extent, peoples political views are shaped by their personality traits. I'm pretty sure you would agree that creative, artistic types are more likely to be left leaning politically?

Here is an article on it:


Psychologists have identified 5 main traits in the human character, everyone posses these to varying degrees. The trait openness is associated with success in the creative industries, whilst conscientiousness more in fields like as banking etc. Openness is more aligned with left leaning views, conscientiousness more right wing.

original.jpg

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It's possible to be high in both openness and conscientiousness, I would argue it's that blend of these character traits which define great managers. People who posses high levels of both of these traits are more likely to lean more towards left leaning ideas, which in my opinion explains why great managers are more likely to be socialists.

Lampard strikes me as someone who is massively high in conscientiousness, but low in openness. Being a highly successful football manager requires a high degree of creativity in responding to tactical situations as they arise in a match. As well as massive empathy and emotional intelligence to be able to deal with a diverse set of human beings and their emotions. This was my original point about what made Lampard so great as a player, will in my opinion hinder him in management. I'm not trying to knock Lampard as a person, he's a phenomenal human being. It's just a theory of mine - it might be total bullshit, but there you go.

Sorry for the long post, I'm aware people use football forums as a way of escaping talk of politics and the like so I'll leave it there now and shut up.
 
That's an interesting take on life.

I don't agree with socialists being the pinnacle of sporting management and it always makes me smile how socialists say how much better they are than others.

Football is in essence the most selfish game on the planet. The desire to win trumps all others. I don't think Ronaldo, Messi, Kane or Neymar give a flying fuck about whether their teammates vote socialist or not, they just want to win and score goals.

Modern managers are the most ruthless of all, they will happily ship players on like meat on a butchers counter. Not much care and attention shown for their fellow man. They have a team to run, goals to achieve, mainly to win games. Human emotion in that case is harnessable and expendable in equal measure.

Managers need to be good leaders. A good leader can harness people to do what they want, that has nothing to do with socialism but empowering people to believe in a cause, that cause is sometimes not common but individual.

And above all people follow people regardless of political persuasion.
 
Aye it’s nothing like real life - football, at player level, is very much a meritocracy. Fuck that in real life.
I think we want to believe that but I'm not so sure that is true. Although I'm not too sure what you mean by 'at player level'.

I think football can quite often a reflection of society, which I think is the over-arching argument? The stuff about the top managers being socialists, I don't know, we've had a few famous names chucked out there but it's a small sample size anyway isn't it to be sure about anything like that.
 
I watched the Ferguson documentary recently, and it's clear that Fergie's upbringing working on the docks, his involvement in the strikes etc had a huge influence on him as a manager and how he managed his players, particularly the "class of 92". I guess we can see that with how Neville is now, i doubt Neville would be quite so political without the influence of Ferguson, but maybe i'm wrong.
 
I think we want to believe that but I'm not so sure that is true. Although I'm not too sure what you mean by 'at player level'.

I think football can quite often a reflection of society, which I think is the over-arching argument? The stuff about the top managers being socialists, I don't know, we've had a few famous names chucked out there but it's a small sample size anyway isn't it to be sure about anything like that.
It is a small sample size mate to be honest, the obvious one who wouldn't fit my argument is Mourinho. He's on record as supporting a centre right candidate in Portugal. I'd just say generally the odds are more likely the other way.
 
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