The Euro 2024 Thread

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'm not taking offence, I just don't think it should be ignored or treated as an irrelevance.

It isn't treated as an irrelevance, but in the context of what Kane and Sniffer said it shouldn't be brought up by people, it's unnecessary.

In fact, if Kane had said we haven't won anything since 2022 he'd be criticised for taking credit for what the women did!

 

[Alan]

Yeah, even I'm sitting here like "they're entirely separate competitions, duh".

I wish women's football had the same cultural clout as men's but it simply doesn't right now.

 

[Sniffer]

As for the same teams winning men's major competitions, 8 out of the last 9 Euro winners have been different and the last 6 World Cup winners have been different.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If Wolves Women won the FA Cup next season then I think we'd all be very happy for them.

There's no way you'd say "Wolves' last FA Cup win was in 2025" would you though, it'd still be 1960.

 

[Dire Wolf]

England haven't won a major tournament since 1966 which is 58 years ago but you'd prefer Austria or Georgia to win it?

Each to their own.

Serious answer though, I should want England to win simply because I happen to be born here? Maybe I should want Portugal to win, because at least they have players in their squad who I watch every week for my club and who I actually care about.

My point really is that football is stale and uninspiring when the same teams are routinely in the finals/semi-finals etc. International football is no different to domestic football in that regard, and honestly, I find it boring to see the same teams having success all the time. And that includes the women's game. There is little disparity in the successful teams in the men's and womens games, so seeing a team like Georgia win it (they won't) would be phenomenally more exciting than seeing Germany, Spain or England win it.

 

[Dire Wolf]

As for the same teams winning men's major competitions, 8 out of the last 9 Euro winners have been different and the last 6 World Cup winners have been different.

List the semi-finalists and quarter finalists. I bet a lot of the same names crop up.

 

[Boozad]

It’s different with international football though isn’t it? Some countries just tend to produce better footballers, largely through population and history of the sport. It’s not like Albania or Andorra are going to be bought out by Saudis and hold the monopoly over European Championships, there will always be a hierarchy and has been for decades in international football, a few anomalies aside.

 

[Dire Wolf]

It’s different with international football though isn’t it? Some countries just tend to produce better footballers, largely through population and history of the sport. It’s not like Albania or Andorra are going to be bought out by Saudis and hold the monopoly over European Championships, there will always be a hierarchy and has been for decades in international football, a few anomalies aside.

Oh, I agree, that's why I said in my earlier post it's the same teams, 'for obvious reasons'.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Also your biggest "fairytale" of this century - Greece winning Euro 2004 - wasn't celebrated much at the time and certainly isn't in retrospect because they played largely grim football and were nowhere near the best team in the tournament. No-one looks back and thinks "what a story, I loved that".

Although there is still a Greek restaurant in Norderstedt just outside Hamburg which continues to proudly display "Europäische Meister 2004" on a sign outside.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Also your biggest "fairytale" of this century - Greece winning Euro 2004 - wasn't celebrated much at the time and certainly isn't in retrospect because they played largely grim football and were nowhere near the best team in the tournament. No-one looks back and thinks "what a story, I loved that".

Although there is still a Greek restaurant in Norderstedt just outside Hamburg which continues to proudly display "Europäische Meister 2004" on a sign outside.

Denmark winning it though was great.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Spain haven't won anything since the Euros in 2012 (a pretty long time in footballing terms)
Germany haven't won the Euros since 1996
France haven't won the Euros since 2000
Belgium have never won anything
Netherlands haven't won the Euros (or anything) since 1988
England have never won the Euros

Of all the international tournaments, it's the one that gets shared around most equitably. This year will very likely add to the list as I seriously doubt Italy are retaining their title.

 

[pr0sl0]

Arguably Spain have regressed to their historical mean, though, which is to be a perpetual underperformer (relative to squad talent) alongside England and Portugal and the Netherlands.

France were in there too in the 20th century, but even in spite of what Deschamps is doing to that squad they feel more naturally assumed as top-tier alongside Italy, Germany, etc. now. Conversely, there's a chance we're seeing Brazil fall down a level too.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Italy's modern tournament history is wild. They don't often have a middling effort, it's all or nothing.

1992: Didn't qualify
1994: Final (lost on pens)
1996: Out in the groups (at the expense of Czechia)
1998: Quarter final (lost on pens to the eventual winners)
2000: Final (lost in extra time)
2002: Out in R16 (to South Korea)
2004: Out in the groups (beaten to it by Sweden and Denmark)
2006: Winners
2008: Quarter final (lost on pens to the eventual winners)
2010: Out in the groups (finishing below Paraguay, Slovakia and New Zealand)
2012: Final
2014: Out in the groups (with us, behind Uruguay and Costa Rica)
2016: Quarter final (lost on pens)
2018: Didn't qualify
2021: Winners
2022: Didn't qualify

 

[Dire Wolf]

I get that I probably have a view that is contrary to most. I just don't get that excited about international football, and I really don't care too much whether England do well or not. The prospect of Austria, Georgia, or Slovakia winning it, is much more interesting to me than seeing one of the big nations win again. I'm not expecting anyone else to feel that way, nor do I care if you disagree with my view, to be honest! I really don't care if a different team has won 7 of the last 8 tournaments, the same protagonists are always hyped up, talked about and in the latter stages, so to see a completely different team win it would be fucking fantastic to me. But I don't expect it to happen. I'd be surprised if the final 4 did not include at least 3 of Germany, Spain, England, France or Portugal. And if 1 other team was there, that would be the team I'd like to see win it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Well it can only be one of Germany, Spain, France or Portugal for a start...

 

[Wolftone]

Spain haven't won anything since the Euros in 2012 (a pretty long time in footballing terms)
Germany haven't won the Euros since 1996
France haven't won the Euros since 2000
Belgium have never won anything
Netherlands haven't won the Euros (or anything) since 1988
England have never won the Euros

Of all the international tournaments, it's the one that gets shared around most equitably. This year will very likely add to the list as I seriously doubt Italy are retaining their title.

There are barely any easy games in the euros, Wouldnt say anyone can beat anyone, but It's not far off that.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Although I take your broader point re seeding, there is still a lot of luck involved. We won our Group as did Germany. Their pathway to the Final would be something like Denmark, Spain, France. Ours Slovakia, Italy, Netherlands, that is lucky. In 2018 finishing second in the group got us Colombia, Sweden, Croatia, winning it was Japan, Brazil France.

We’ve definitely had a lot of luck.

We also piss qualifying so easily now because the talent gap at the top is so wide between teams like England and the next rung. Even if you struggle against someone like Czechia, it doesn’t matter as they slip up against the next rung whereas England breeze past them.

I look back at those tournaments from the golden generation and Sven had no luck at all. Sendings off, key injuries, penalty losses, tough draws, keeper howlers. Southgate had managed to avoid all that so far.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I look back at those tournaments from the golden generation and Sven had no luck at all. Sendings off, key injuries, penalty losses, tough draws, keeper howlers. Southgate had managed to avoid all that so far.

I liked Sven a lot but a lot of it was his own fault.

2002: Brazil really weren't great and down to 10 men. We barely had a shot after the red card because he wouldn't change anything. Also he failed to beat Sweden or Nigeria in the group which put us on that side of the draw
2004: It's bad luck that Rooney got injured when he was the best player in the tournament and we were 1-0 up but Vassell as a straight swap was a terrible sub
2006: Maybe when Rooney and Owen are both not really fit, take more than one other striker (that you aren't 100% sold on) and a child, plus change the team when it's obvious for multiple games that it isn't working

 

[Loki]

We’ve definitely had a lot of luck.

I look back at those tournaments from the golden generation and Sven had no luck at all. Sendings off, key injuries, penalty losses, tough draws, keeper howlers. Southgate had managed to avoid all that so far.

You need a bit of luck in the Cup. Who said that ?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I look back at those tournaments from the golden generation and Sven had no luck at all. Sendings off, key injuries, penalty losses, tough draws, keeper howlers. Southgate had managed to avoid all that so far.

Has he?

We lost on pens to Italy, despite Pickford performing brilliantly in them.

We've had injuries too, look at LB and CB at the moment.

Avoiding tough draws has already been mentioned, like if you beat Italy home and away in the quals you deserve a better draw.