The Euro 2024 Thread

[Sniffer]

Southgate has had six years to work a method of getting us up the pitch when under pressure but we’re as bad at it now as we were in 2018. We may as just leave Saka up wide and go long over the top to him as at least we’d be in a better position territorially and then try and pin the opposition back.
We need a player in the midfield just to receive the ball and knit the play together and Wharton looked like he could do that in the bits I’ve seen of him but he’s not getting a look in.
I agree we can still go far though but it will be quite turgid stuff rather than tearing sides apart with free flowing football.
We’ve been very good at beating lesser nations but quite average against the better sides and I don’t see that changing whilst Southgate is still in charge.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Incidentally we haven't won all our group games since the 1982 World Cup, which is fairly shocking.

1986: Portugal L 0-1, Morocco D 0-0, Poland W 3-0
1988: Ireland L 0-1, Netherlands 1-3, USSR L 1-3
1990: Ireland D 1-1, Netherlands D 0-0, Egypt W 1-0
1992: Denmark D 0-0, France D 0-0, Sweden L 1-2
1996: Switzerland D 1-1, Scotland W 2-0, Netherlands W 4-1
1998: Tunisia W 2-0, Romania L 1-2, Colombia W 2-0
2000: Portugal L 2-3, Germany W 1-0, Romania L 2-3
2002: Sweden D 1-1, Argentina W 1-0, Nigeria D 0-0
2004: France L 1-2, Switzerland W 3-0, Croatia W 4-2
2006: Paraguay W 1-0, Trinidad & Tobago W 2-0, Sweden D 2-2
2010: USA D 1-1, Algeria D 0-0, Slovenia W 1-0
2012: France D 1-1, Sweden W 3-2, Ukraine W 1-0
2014: Italy L 1-2, Uruguay L 1-2, Costa Rica D 0-0
2016: Russia D 1-1, Wales W 2-1, Slovakia D 0-0
2018: Tunisia W 2-1, Panama W 6-0, Belgium L 0-1
2021: Croatia W 1-0, Scotland D 0-0, Czech Republic W 1-0
2022: Iran W 6-2, USA D 0-0, Wales W 3-0
2024: Serbia W 1-0, Denmark D 1-1, Slovenia TBD

 

[The Bear]

More entertainment than the entire England game.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803896563921572057

 

[jd1981]

Southgate has had six years to work a method of getting us up the pitch when under pressure but we’re as bad at it now as we were in 2018. We may as just leave Saka up wide and go long over the top to him as at least we’d be in a better position territorially and then try and pin the opposition back.
We need a player in the midfield just to receive the ball and knit the play together and Wharton looked like he could do that in the bits I’ve seen of him but he’s not getting a look in.
I agree we can still go far though but it will be quite turgid stuff rather than tearing sides apart with free flowing football.
We’ve been very good at beating lesser nations but quite average against the better sides and I don’t see that changing whilst Southgate is still in charge.

I think some England fans like to think we’re in the elite group of European power houses with France, Germany, Spain & Italy but were absolutely not. We’re very much the tier below with Portugal, Netherlands, Croatia, Belgium, Czechia and Denmark.
Countries that either have 1 big success or have come close.
You’re right we’re very good at disposing of inferior opponents it’s why we generally always qualify and often reach the knockout stages. This is where the mental blocks and tactical ineptitude kicks in.
We’ve never beaten any of the European power houses or Brazil and Argentina outside of England in a knockout game.
Since winning the WC in 66 our knock out wins have been.
1986 W 3-0 v Paraguay
1990 W 1-0 v Belgium, W 3-2 v Cameroon
1996 (in England) 0-0 v Spain won on pens
2002 W 3-0 v Denmark
2006 W 1-0 v Ecuador
2018 1-1 v Colombia won pens, 2-0 v Sweden
2021 2-0 v Germany (in England) 4-0 v Ukraine, 2-1 v Denmark (in England)
2022 3-0 v Senegal

Don’t think it’s an English mental thing big example being the rugby side more often than not go deep at world cups and often beat big nations in knockouts. 1995 beat Australia, 2003 beat France and Australia, same again 4 years later and 2019 beat Australia and New Zealand.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That England rugby team from 2000 until 2005 was pretty much the best side on the planet though. (Much as it pains me to admit it)

 

[Johnny75]

That England rugby team from 2000 until 2005 was pretty much the best side on the planet though. (Much as it pains me to admit it)

The collection of players we have in this tournament is the best we've had in decades.

The fact the manager can't manage them into a team that they should be is the issue.

Watching Spain last night and the way they set up is exactly the way we should be and their set of players isn't as good as ours.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The England front six is easily the best seen in ages, and there is plenty of depth to back up most of those starters. I'm not the biggest Jordan Pickford fan in the world but he is more than competent for a top side.

The lack of a left back is the only real hole in the England squad this year. EDIT - plus who you play alongside Declan Rice. It clearly can't be TAA, so play Wharton or Mainoo surely. Gallagher is decent enough, but take the shackles off and go with a young tyro.

The players are definitely there. Fitting Foden and Bellingham in together seems a little bit of a conundrum, but only because of Southgate's set up. What he also needs to change is the mentality to get ahead and then defend 1-0 as if facing the Alamo. As it happens so often it can't be anything other than instruction, and it baffles me.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Well that was crap wasn't it.

Far too structured with our shape, not utilising the flair we have.

He clearly gave Foden the free role that Bellingham had against Serbia, which meant Bellingham wasn't anywhere near as effective. Also rather than Kane playing off the front and occupying defenders, he was dropping deeper, but we weren't getting players ahead of him, resulting in us losing the ball.

There was a real lack of energy, it was slow and methodical, the pitch didn't help with that, and there were dozens of loose passes - which isn't GS's fault, but that's not the point.

I don't even think the personnel needs changing too much, but the energy definitely does!

Trippier stiffles us, which isn't his or GS's fault either, we really need Shaw back.

Many are calling for Palmer, but I'm not convinced he'd change things hugely, he's not quick, he's more a pick a pocket of space sort of player.

Eze wasn't up to speed at all, Bowen was busy.

One plus point, Guehi was excellent, other than the one mistake that he recovered brilliantly from, also thought Gallagher was better than TAA, but that wasn't a high bar!

Ultimately we are through (no team has failed to get through a 3 qualifying group stage with 4 points before) but we need really improve the energy and fluidity.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

What he also needs to change is the mentality to get ahead and then defend 1-0 as if facing the Alamo. As it happens so often it can't be anything other than instruction, and it baffles me.

I don't think it's an instruction, it surely can't be, it makes no sense (Walker denied it when asked last night too). But given how regularly it has happened I can fully understand why people think it is!

 

[Johnny75]

The England front six is easily the best seen in ages, and there is plenty of depth to back up most of those starters. I'm not the biggest Jordan Pickford fan in the world but he is more than competent for a top side.

The lack of a left back is the only real hole in the England squad this year. EDIT - plus who you play alongside Declan Rice. It clearly can't be TAA, so play Wharton or Mainoo surely. Gallagher is decent enough, but take the shackles off and go with a young tyro.

The players are definitely there. Fitting Foden and Bellingham in together seems a little bit of a conundrum, but only because of Southgate's set up. What he also needs to change is the mentality to get ahead and then defend 1-0 as if facing the Alamo. As it happens so often it can't be anything other than instruction, and it baffles me.

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Trippier
Rice - Bellingham
Saka - Foden - Gordon
Kane​

Play with a high press and keep possession like City/ Arsenal. The players are there to do this.

Southgate isn't that type of manager though which is England's biggest issue. I'd sack him today if I could.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't think it's an instruction, it surely can't be, it makes no sense (Walker denied it when asked last night too). But given how regularly it has happened I can fully understand why people think it is!

It's instruction Kane alluded to this in his interview post game.

 

[Johnny75]

Well that was crap wasn't it.

Far too structured with our shape, not utilising the flair we have.

He clearly gave Foden the free role that Bellingham had against Serbia, which meant Bellingham wasn't anywhere near as effective. Also rather than Kane playing off the front and occupying defenders, he was dropping deeper, but we weren't getting players ahead of him, resulting in us losing the ball.

There was a real lack of energy, it was slow and methodical, the pitch didn't help with that, and there were dozens of loose passes - which isn't GS's fault, but that's not the point.

I don't even think the personnel needs changing too much, but the energy definitely does!

Trippier stiffles us, which isn't his or GS's fault either, we really need Shaw back.

Many are calling for Palmer, but I'm not convinced he'd change things hugely, he's not quick, he's more a pick a pocket of space sort of player.

Eze wasn't up to speed at all, Bowen was busy.

One plus point, Guehi was excellent, other than the one mistake that he recovered brilliantly from, also thought Gallagher was better than TAA, but that wasn't a high bar!

Ultimately we are through (no team has failed to get through a 3 qualifying group stage with 4 points before) but we need really improve the energy and fluidity.

That's exactly what a manager is there to do. To set the stall out with opening tactics and to change things when they aren't working.

He isn't capable of doing that and has never been.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Trippier
Rice - Bellingham
Saka - Foden - Gordon
Kane​

Play with a high press and keep possession like City/ Arsenal. The players are there to do this.

Southgate isn't that type of manager though which is England's biggest issue. I'd sack him today if I could.

Getting the best out of Foden by losing something from Bellingham though. I really like Bellingham in the 10 role behind Kane. Gordon on the left though surely helps open things up a bit.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Chaaaaaaaarrrrrggge mode selected

-------------------Pickford
-Walker----Stones-------Guehi-----Trippier (ugh)
----------------------Rice

-Saka-----Bellingham--Foden-----Gordon
---------------------Kane

Win every match 6-5

 

[Sniffer]

Getting the best out of Foden by losing something from Bellingham though. I really like Bellingham in the 10 role behind Kane. Gordon on the left though surely helps open things up a bit.

From what I've seen in the first two games Bellingham, like Kane doesn't have the energy for the high press that we need. By playing him further back, Foden is in the middle in a more suited role, Gordon on the left it will give the side better balance and we'll have 3 willing runners to press when needed.
You may be right in losing something from Bellingham but the gains from elsewhere should make for a better side.

 

[Johnny75]

Chaaaaaaaarrrrrggge mode selected

-------------------Pickford
-Walker----Stones-------Guehi-----Trippier (ugh)
----------------------Rice

-Saka-----Bellingham--Foden-----Gordon
---------------------Kane

Win every match 6-5

That's how Pep sets City up. Bellingham would be in the Dundogan role (in City's best team)

City are phenomenal defensively.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I fear the second line of your post may succinctly highlight the issue with my cunning plan. Trippier is not in any way a good left back so he will need protecting. More than happy with the other three at the back though. Guehi has been excellent.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

All felt very World Cup 2006 today as JD said. You've picked all your big names but not worked out how they all fit together, and we moved the ball so so slowly.

Much like at 2006 we won't concede many along the way which always gives you a shout of going a fair way but you do need more than that to win it.

Kane looks caught between two stools, not dropping in to the pockets like he has done for most of the last 2-3 years but also not sticking right up front and occupying the centre halves. If he gets a chance he's got a high probability of scoring but again it's not enough, or Italy would still be picking Pippo Inzaghi.

Wharton should allow us to move the ball quicker and crucially he always looks for the forward pass (plus he's actually, y'know, a CM rather than a RB who can't defend that we're trying to shoehorn into the team), Gordon would mean that we have a quick, direct threat on both flanks like Spain did tonight. Not saying they would be transformative changes necessarily as we might still be stodgy as all hell, but they would help solve two key problems from the last two games.

That's the worst I've ever seen Declan Rice play for anyone and it now transpires Shaw still isn't training properly...how did we put ourselves in that position? There are left backs around, not world beaters, but at least an alternative to Trippier (defending has been fine but through no fault of his own, he's a black hole of possession in open play on the left) or Gomez (a clunking right footed CH, no, you're ok ta).

I can only hope the Kalvin Phillips comments were a deflection tactic because they're nonsense. I mean if you DO think he's that important and we have literally no-one else who can do what he does (rubbish of course, even at his absolute best he's always the weakest player technically in an England team) then pick him and say that he's your man and you don't care whether he is or isn't playing at club level, so long as he's fit. He isn't injured! Of course given that he's hardly played for anyone since the World Cup 18 months ago then you have had ample time to solve that particular conundrum so no sympathy.

It's all quite concerning, it's salvageable but we're now trying to find solutions on the job which shouldn't be the case when all our key players are fit and have played well all season.

I agree with you saying we're trying to find solutions on the job, but frankly the solutuons are getting the players playing as they do every week, which in effect, is their job

 

[Wolftone]

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Trippier
Rice - Bellingham
Saka - Foden - Gordon
Kane​

Play with a high press and keep possession like City/ Arsenal. The players are there to do this.

Southgate isn't that type of manager though which is England's biggest issue. I'd sack him today if I could.

Agree with your line up except id play Bellingham where you have Foden and play Wharton or Gallagher where you have Bellingham. Alternatively play Foden on the right in place of Saka and again push Bellingham forward more, replacing him with Wharton/Gallagher.

 

[The Bear]

Bellingham is best as a No. 10 but you can't sacrifice the rest of the team's tactics for him if you don't have the players for it. He has to go back alongside Rice and pick his moments to burst forwards. He's a good enough and smart enough player to do that.

Watkins impressed me though, and as the BBC pundits were saying Kane needs someone to do the running in behind him to make space for him and others.

Kane can play in a slightly deeper role and Watkins can play off the shoulder. I don't think having two strikers is that out of fashion nowadays and we still have the players to make it work IMO.


---------------- Pickford

Walker - Guehi - Stones - Trippier

------- Bellingham - Rice

Saka ------------------------------ Gordon

------------ Watkins - Kane


Bellingham has freedom to move forwards when we have the ball, and Kane drops off as he likes to do. Gordon deserves a go on the left to see what he offers.