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The 2024 Paris Olympics Thread

She's also not trans, although it's being deliberately weaponised as such. She has always identified as female and presumably had female genitalia from birth. Last year she tested as having too much testosterone in her system and therefore seen as biologically male.
And that's why it's shameful of the IOC to let this go ahead. It's incredibly dangerous.
 
But don’t frame the debate as “this is a real woman and that isn’t”. As the tweet did.
That's not the bit to take away from the tweet really is it?
 
Most of the trans "debate" is at least one of tiresome, outdated or bigoted, but when it's a sport that literally revolves around punching your opponent in the face, there are clearly issues around safeguarding.
OK sure, but... that's why weight classes exist. Boxing and other martial arts are already set up to allow for separating different types of competitor based on physical strength.

Plus:

1) Imane Khelif is a woman, and has competed as one for years, including losing a bunch of fights. She's clearly not uniquely dangerous, even within her weight class.
2) The "testing" done to ascertain whether she might have intersex traits is pretty dodgy - the IBA has never revealed publicly what, exactly, was tested, nor what the results were, and they continue to stonewall any requests to publish details. (This is especially relevant because not all intersex traits correlate with, let alone determine, athletic performance.)
3) The IBA is notoriously corrupt, and it's suspicious that the "test results" were first published last year by the organisation's Russian president, who has a vested interest in pushing his government's anti-LGBTQ+ position.

For all the frothing from the usual "women's rights" bigots - who are so concerned with protecting women that they want to test them, inspect them, shove them into a rigidly defined box labelled "REAL WOMEN" and discriminate against anyone who doesn't meet those criteria (and intersex people so often are collateral damage here) - people actually in sport are actually often capable of a much more nuanced perspective:

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OK sure, but... that's why weight classes exist. Boxing and other martial arts are already set up to allow for separating different types of competitor based on physical strength.

Plus:

1) Imane Khelif is a woman, and has competed as one for years, including losing a bunch of fights. She's clearly not uniquely dangerous, even within her weight class.
2) The "testing" done to ascertain whether she might have intersex traits is pretty dodgy - the IBA has never revealed publicly what, exactly, was tested, nor what the results were, and they continue to stonewall any requests to publish details. (This is especially relevant because not all intersex traits correlate with, let alone determine, athletic performance.)
3) The IBA is notoriously corrupt, and it's suspicious that the "test results" were first published last year by the organisation's Russian president, who has a vested interest in pushing his government's anti-LGBTQ+ position.

For all the frothing from the usual "women's rights" bigots - who are so concerned with protecting women that they want to test them, inspect them, shove them into a rigidly defined box labelled "REAL WOMEN" and discriminate against anyone who doesn't meet those criteria (and intersex people so often are collateral damage here) - people actually in sport are actually often capable of a much more nuanced perspective:

View attachment 11232
So much wrong.

Weight classes are nothing to do with strength, they're to do with force, both withstanding and delivering blows.

The notion that a test not being publish means the governing body are corrupt is a dangerous concept and simply not true. Bleating and moaning shows ignorance of drug testing in sport.

Testosterone levels are important and it's unfortunate that she is above them in this case but the levels exist for a reason and it is to do with the force as I've mentioned.

Politicising this is missing the point by a country mile.

Lastly just because a fighter says another competitor is ok to compete doesn't mean they are and that decision should always be left to the professionals.
 
I find the dropping in of the “”women’s rights” bigots” reference quite interesting.

No idea if you are a man or a woman but, as a big bloke, it would be very easy to tell my wife that she should be fine sharing toilet facilities with someone born a man - her life experience of having been raped in a public toilet by a man may not make my words sufficiently reassuring.
 
I can’t seem to find an answer on the debate around Imane Khelif. So does someone on here somehow have some inside knowledge.

Does she have the same situation as Caster Semenya? Now it’s not her fault, but it’s also not fair. And that was running, not being punched in the face.
 
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I dunno about the weight classes argument. Would you be happy to stick Joey Barton in a boxing ring with a woman of a similar weight?

(I would if I knew he'd get fucking battered but that's a separate argument)
 
I feel for Imane. She's had no influence on or choice in her testosterone levels. The level of abuse, scrutiny and attention she'll get now will be absolutely horrific, intolerable, and she doesn't deserve it as she's done nothing wrong.

She also shouldn't be allowed to fight at all. She shouldn't be allowed to fight women for the same reasons she wouldn't be allowed to fight men. The very first responsibility of the IOC or the IBA is to protect the safety of their athletes, and the second is to respect the integrity of sport. Neither of things are protected, unfortunately and through nobody's fault, by Imane fighting anybody.

The way the press are framing it is disgusting - purposely, deviously vague. 90% of the people who have read the story will think she is trans, and her existence in the Olympics is being used to stir up further transphobia and it's disgusting.
 
I find the dropping in of the “”women’s rights” bigots” reference quite interesting.

No idea if you are a man or a woman but, as a big bloke, it would be very easy to tell my wife that she should be fine sharing toilet facilities with someone born a man - her life experience of having been raped in a public toilet by a man may not make my words sufficiently reassuring.
A refereed fight is not a good analogy for this. Carini was still able to stop the bout when she felt it was needed.

As for your wife, you both have my condolences. I know how the stain never comes out all the way.
 
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