Summer 2020 Transfer Window (Extended Version)

[Deutsch Wolf]

Nuno's contract is the reddest of red herrings, I don't know why the likes of Spiers keep throwing it out there.

If he ever wants to leave then it's irrelevant whether he has 0, 1, 2, 5 or 10 years left on his deal. We won't be adequately compensated whatever given what he brings to the club. Because of the arcane way in which football works sometimes, managers can just go if they want while players can't.

It's an irrelevance. If he signed a five year deal tomorrow it would make no material difference to us whatsoever.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Nuno's contract is the reddest of red herrings, I don't know why the likes of Spiers keep throwing it out there.

If he ever wants to leave then it's irrelevant whether he has 0, 1, 2, 5 or 10 years left on his deal. We won't be adequately compensated whatever given what he brings to the club. Because of the arcane way in which football works sometimes, managers can just go if they want while players can't.

It's an irrelevance. If he signed a five year deal tomorrow it would make no material difference to us whatsoever.

The optics would be good though, and it'd mean he is happy with how he is being remunerated.

 

[prawnking]

Please let's not get into "JUST PAY THE MONEY" territory.

That's unlikely, fortunately this forum isn't populated with entitled kids like Twitter.

Even so, the dominant 'pipe down/calm down/trust the club' position on TWF looks slightly threadbare and more than a little complacent after the past couple of transfer windows and the unfortunate repercussions they had on our hopes of repeated European presence. I think most of the questioning and mild concern is measured and appropriate.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He doesn't seem unhappy (other than the whole biosecure thing which meant he couldn't see his family for a while) and I doubt he's on a pittance. It really is a strange narrative that keeps cropping up. Optics or not.

Managers should be the same as players if someone else wants to hire them. You want Nuno? Ok, £150m and he's yours.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

That's unlikely, fortunately this forum isn't populated with entitled kids like Twitter.

Even so, the dominant 'pipe down/calm down/trust the club' position on TWF looks slightly threadbare and more than a little complacent after the past couple of transfer windows and the unfortunate repercussions they had on our hopes of repeated European presence. I think most of the questioning and mild concern is measured and appropriate.

I don't know about complacency, I think everyone knows we need new players.

But no-one would have said two weeks ago that Ainsley Maitland-Niles is a potential game changer for us. I can see why we'd do it, but it's not one where I want us bent over a barrel.

The last two windows: Cutrone was a good idea that didn't pan out. Lost nothing on it other than four months' wages. Vallejo ditto. Neto looks a steal for what we paid as does Podence. We'll see on Jordao. Brought in £41m for two players we didn't want and who weren't good enough. The windows weren't that bad.

It wasn't tiredness that brought us down IMO, that's a lazy answer. We just aren't as good as Sevilla are in European competition, and we might finish above Spurs when they don't have Harry Kane, probably not when they do have him.

 

[Deano]

We aren't as good as Sevilla, but against both them and against Olympiacos in the game before we were a lot more passive than we usually are, to the point where we had no control in midfield the ball wasn't sticking up front and we hardly had an attack in the 2nd half. I think Sevilla are a better side than us but not to the extent where we barely looked like laying a glove on them in an attacking sense.

 

[Jinky]

Please let's not get into "JUST PAY THE MONEY" territory.

I get this. But I do think eventually you have to 'suck it up' and pay what the selling club want (within reason). Like I have said in previous posts, we're quick to jump up and down when it's our players been touted for moves - but ultimately it's a sellers market - so if Arsenal want £20m for AMN and Nuno has stipulated he wants him, stop fucking around offering £15m and just offer what they want and get it done. Little bit different if Arsenal wanted £35m for him, but £5m isn't going to break the bank. Surely they would just want to get it over the line as the clubs line publicly has been they will do everything possible to strengthen the squad.

 

[prawnking]

I don't know about complacency, I think everyone knows we need new players.

But no-one would have said two weeks ago that Ainsley Maitland-Niles is a potential game changer for us. I can see why we'd do it, but it's not one where I want us bent over a barrel.

The last two windows: Cutrone was a good idea that didn't pan out. Lost nothing on it other than four months' wages. Vallejo ditto. Neto looks a steal for what we paid as does Podence. We'll see on Jordao. Brought in £41m for two players we didn't want and who weren't good enough. The windows weren't that bad.

It wasn't tiredness that brought us down IMO, that's a lazy answer. We just aren't as good as Sevilla are in European competition, and we might finish above Spurs when they don't have Harry Kane, probably not when they do have him.

Well we're never gonna get any closer to Sevilla or Spurs if we still have the second-rate likes of Campana, Burr, Kilman and Jordao as (unused) squad options while continuing to flog Raul, Moutinho and others to death.

Last summer there were a few of us who wanted some (at least one!!) first XI players - whatever spin you put on it, Cutrone and Vallejo didn't really look like this from the start, and rather than being 'good ideas that didn't pan out', were just failures. I like Neto and Podence too, but even they don't go into most people's first XI.

AMN is perhaps no game-changer, but he'd certainly get in over Vinagre for me, and probably give Doc a run for his money over time. £20m isn't really being held over a barrel for a versatile English player in their early 20s with significant first-team experience as an established top 6 side, either.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, well we're not going to play 50+ games this season, so everyone can have a bit more of a breather.

To reiterate, I want at least three players in - LWB (because we have one player who can play there right now), CM (different to what we have) and ST (not some total jobber like Oliveira, someone you'd actually play). If we don't get them then I'll criticise. But that's a job for October, not August.

 

[Tony Towner]

We aren't as good as Sevilla, but against both them and against Olympiacos in the game before we were a lot more passive than we usually are, to the point where we had no control in midfield the ball wasn't sticking up front and we hardly had an attack in the 2nd half. I think Sevilla are a better side than us but not to the extent where we barely looked like laying a glove on them in an attacking sense.

I think you can add Chelsea to that, so 3 on the spin. I think you could say in all the games after lockdown there's only Everton, who weren't trying, where we were close to our best. The other wins were well managed games, but a fair way off what we are capable of performance wise.

I don't accept that Moutinho and Raul weren't both knackered by the end

 

[prawnking]

If we don't get them then I'll criticise. But that's a job for October, not August.

Well I won't hold my breath awaiting the ferocity of your criticism judging by your rather mild assessment 12 months later of the Cutrone and Vallejo clusterfucks...

I also don't think you have to wait till the end of a process to criticise how it appears to be unfolding.

Anyway...hopefully it turns out fine and we're all happy as pigs in shit come the end of the window!

 

[The Bear]

It'd be nice if we could make any kind of statement signing. I know the club like to buy low and develop, they're an investment company after all so no surprise that's their strategy, but once in a while you can throw a bit of money at it to show other people and your own players that you're serious.

Whether that's a Dias or a Cancelo, or a Gaya or Rodriguez or Vinicius, it would just be nice to get one over the line. And now is the time to do it. Clubs are reluctant to sell with Covid tightening their purse strings, but our owners have no shortage of funds. FFP is supposedly relaxed this season which makes it another good time to do it, and we have money from the sales of Costa and Cavaleiro to re-invest.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Well I won't hold my breath awaiting the ferocity of your criticism judging by your rather mild assessment 12 months later of the Cutrone and Vallejo clusterfucks...

Hopefully there's no need and we're all happy as pigs in shit come the end of the window!

I'm not sure what you'd like me to do. We sent a loanee back halfway through his spell, then got our money back on a bloke who didn't want to be here. These being highly regarded players from Real Madrid and AC Milan. I'll save my rage for obviously shit deals like signing Joe Mason for £3m when he was clearly utter rubbish and we ended up throwing him away. Or Paul Gladon when five minutes of scouting could tell you that he doesn't know what offside is.

Cutrone didn't look like a bad player. He just wasn't willing to wait and didn't settle (and as I've said ad infinitum, living abroad is fucking hard).

 

[YoungWolf]

Cutrone is a good player, it just didn't work out. We need to find a solution for this as going to be hard to convince a half decent number 9 to sit on the bench as Raul is always available. I'm less worried about this now we aren't in Europe.

Vallejo was a disaster, so we are back in the same position re. a centre back (except we know that Donck and Saiss can perform well there, and Kilman has not let himself down either). For me centre back is a priority though because I think a genuinely top class player to go alongside Coady and Boly would allow us to free up the wing backs slightly more, play higher and have better distribution from the back.

 

[prawnking]

It'd be nice if we could make any kind of statement signing. I know the club like to buy low and develop, they're an investment company after all so no surprise that's their strategy, but once in a while you can throw a bit of money at it to show other people and your own players that you're serious.

Whether that's a Dias or a Cancelo, or a Gaya or Rodriguez or Vinicius, it would just be nice to get one over the line. And now is the time to do it. Clubs are reluctant to sell with Covid tightening their purse strings, but our owners have no shortage of funds. FFP is supposedly relaxed this season which makes it another good time to do it, and we have money from the sales of Costa and Cavaleiro to re-invest.

I agree. The PL is awash with money, and while there's a distasteful element to it, i don't see how you can achieve the sort of success we've said we want and avoid playing the game on occasion

 

[Jinky]

We aren't as good as Sevilla, but against both them and against Olympiacos in the game before we were a lot more passive than we usually are, to the point where we had no control in midfield the ball wasn't sticking up front and we hardly had an attack in the 2nd half. I think Sevilla are a better side than us but not to the extent where we barely looked like laying a glove on them in an attacking sense.

I completely agree with this. I would ask anyone who doesn't blame tiredness and lack of squad depth to go back and watch those games again. We were shattered and had to essentially play the last part of the season without the ball. Yes, Sevilla are better than us, but we were a long way below our usual performance levels.

 

[prawnking]

I'm not sure what you'd like me to do. We sent a loanee back halfway through his spell, then got our money back on a bloke who didn't want to be here. These being highly regarded players from Real Madrid and AC Milan. I'll save my rage for obviously shit deals like signing Joe Mason for £3m when he was clearly utter rubbish and we ended up throwing him away. Or Gladon when five minutes of scouting could tell you that he doesn't know what offside is.

Cutrone didn't look like a bad player. He just wasn't willing to wait and didn't settle (and as I've said ad infinitum, living abroad is fucking hard).

No-one's raging about about anything, and no-one's talking about Wolves in 2014, or 2003, or 1986. I have the right to assess and criticise Wolves 2020, surely? Or is it fine to shut any signing criticism up by mentioning Neil Masters or whoever...?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not shutting you up at all, you say whatever you like.

I just think it's very much overblown to say how badly we got it wrong in the transfer market. Being as we have a better squad now than we did in May 2019, and we finished 7th. Disagree with me if you want.

 

[prawnking]

I'm not shutting you up at all, you say whatever you like.

I just think it's very much overblown to say how badly we got it wrong in the transfer market. Being as we have a better squad now than we did in May 2019, and we finished 7th. Disagree with me if you want.

The transfer criticism from my perspective relates to the lack of improvement of that first XI; Aside from Traore for Costa, no-one has broken into the team that started in the PL back in 18/19.

I think Vallejo and Cutrone were BOTH disasters, only difference is one had a cool song and was a 'heart on his sleeve' running-about type. Disasters in that we needed an option at the back and an option up top and neither were fit for purpose, dress it up how you like. That meant we had to use a makeshift option at the back (although Saiss and Donk rarely let us down, tbf), and play Raul 100% of the time. That isn't 'losing nothing' to me, I think those fine margins could well have lost us an even better season.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Is Saiss a makeshift option? He always plays at CH for his country and in fact he's their captain.

I'm not going to castigate them on what *could* have happened, sorry :icon_lol: It didn't, did it?