REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Johnny75]

If there's one thing that unites the average Tory MP, it's that they're fucking lazy. This is becoming more and more evident by the day. David Davies is the prime example of this. They basically haven't been arsed to put in the necessary work to bring about any sort of workable Brexit, and will now seek to shift the blame elsewhere.

But the "intransigent EU" narrative, though arrant bollocks, will play beautifully in the necessary media outlets and confirm lots of pre-existing prejudices and thus they will storm it at the next general election.
That is what this whole thing has been about after all - keeping the Tory party together and in power. Nothing else matters.

What makes you think any other MP is any different?

I agree with your wider point that this is all about the Tories and keeping them in power but Labour want exactly the same power and are happy to drive the country over the edge. This isn't 'But Labour' this is 'they're all wankers'.

 

[Trips]

“They didn’t tell us the true facts. They kept us in the dark like mushrooms and fed us bullshit,” he said. “We voted because of immigration and we didn’t realise how poor we would be. It will be terrible but I still want it, because of immigration.”

You can't help some people!

 

[Johnny75]

Who's that Trips?

 

[Trips]

Who's that Trips?

From EdgeoftheAlps Guardian link, 73 year-old leave voter. Happy to be poorer, as long as we get rid of those pesky forriners

 

[SLA]

What makes you think any other MP is any different?

I agree with your wider point that this is all about the Tories and keeping them in power but Labour want exactly the same power and are happy to drive the country over the edge. This isn't 'But Labour' this is 'they're all wankers'.

Not really relevant though, is it? When Labour, the SNP, the Greens, the DUP the Dims are next in power and prove themselves, en masse, to be lazy, corrupt, conniving bastards, then I will call them out for that. But as they're not really in a position to fuck up my children's lives right now, I don't see them as particularly interesting targets.

 

[Johnny75]

Not really relevant though, is it? When Labour, the SNP, the Greens, the DUP the Dims are next in power and prove themselves, en masse, to be lazy, corrupt, conniving bastards, then I will call them out for that. But as they're not really in a position to fuck up my children's lives right now, I don't see them as particularly interesting targets.

So you think Corbyn not opposing the Tories for 2 years and not attacking their sheer incompetence on this is not fucking up your kids lives by proxy?

Corbyn and the left want Brexit so they can nationalise big parts of the nation they can't under EU rules. Lets not kid ourselves otherwise.

Our two main parties have fucked us all over royally. Blaming the Tories for being Tories is sticking your head in the sand.

 

[SLA]

So you think Corbyn not opposing the Tories for 2 years and not attacking their sheer incompetence on this is not fucking up your kids lives by proxy?

Corbyn and the left want Brexit so they can nationalise big parts of the nation they can't under EU rules. Lets not kid ourselves otherwise.

Our two main parties have fucked us all over royally. Blaming the Tories for being Tories is sticking your head in the sand.

I'm going with a 90/10 split of the blame here. Tories called the referendum and then have proceeded to fuck it up ever since, deliberately and/or by incompetence.

To go back to my smashed mug analogy. Who takes the lion's share of the blame for knocking the mug off the table - the person who deliberately knocks it off or the bloke in the corner who doesn't make sufficient effort to stop it happening?

Don't get me wrong, I've no love for Labour or Corbyn and I certainly think their approach to Brexit is a disgrace, but ultimately, they're not the ones in power. This is pretty much all on the Tories.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

So you think Corbyn not opposing the Tories for 2 years and not attacking their sheer incompetence on this is not fucking up your kids lives by proxy?

Corbyn and the left want Brexit so they can nationalise big parts of the nation they can't under EU rules. Lets not kid ourselves otherwise.

Our two main parties have fucked us all over royally. Blaming the Tories for being Tories is sticking your head in the sand.

And “hard brexiteers” want to leave the EU so that they can roll back legislation they currently can’t because of EU legislation. Being in, or out, of the EU is a political decision as much as it is about anything else. The referendum vote put the power to leave in the hands of parliament....politicians. It should be no surprise that politicians have different political aspirations.

 

[Johnny75]

I'm going with a 90/10 split of the blame here. Tories called the referendum and then have proceeded to fuck it up ever since, deliberately and/or by incompetence.

To go back to my smashed mug analogy. Who takes the lion's share of the blame for knocking the mug off the table - the person who deliberately knocks it off or the bloke in the corner who doesn't make sufficient effort to stop it happening?

Don't get me wrong, I've no love for Labour or Corbyn and I certainly think their approach to Brexit is a disgrace, but ultimately, they're not the ones in power. This is pretty much all on the Tories.

The cunt who put it there in the first place.

 

[Johnny75]

And “hard brexiteers” want to leave the EU so that they can roll back legislation they currently can’t because of EU legislation. Being in, or out, of the EU is a political decision as much as it is about anything else. The referendum vote put the power to leave in the hands of parliament....politicians. It should be no surprise that politicians have different political aspirations.

That's fair enough but at least the electorate should have been told that by Corbyn and Labour rather than saying nothing.

Both parties are to blame here and yes I do blame the opposition for doing absolutely nothing. It's watching Nero while he watched Rome burn stuff.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

That's fair enough but at least the electorate should have been told that by Corbyn and Labour rather than saying nothing.

Both parties are to blame here and yes I do blame the opposition for doing absolutely nothing. It's watching Nero while he watched Rome burn stuff.

The opposition have done something. Labour’s negotiating position has long been established but they were not in power so couldn’t advance it. Theresa May set out her “red lines” and it resulted in the withdrawal agreement and the backstop. Labour preferred a customs union which would have negated the need for any special arrangement in respect of Northern Ireland - Labour’s position is also closer to what the EU wanted....but that approach would be less likely to deal with free movement of labour and other issues like jurisdiction of ECJ. There is an argument that Labour have not been robust enough in explaining their alternative which may have brought on board those who voted remain but accept leaving.

In hindsight, Labour erred in supporting the meaningful vote because May’s deal would have lost her the support of the DUP and would likely have brought down the government if she had forced it on parliament without a vote.

 

[Johnny75]

I think that's generous of you on Labour's position as nobody has actually know what their position was at the start of the referendum and particularly Corbyn who bumbled his answer every time he was asked. This lead to complete confusion and looking weak in the face of some absolute arsery from the Tories.

 

[Kenny]

This is baffling

Steve Bullock
‏ @GuitarMoog
Deeply sad watching @SkyNews to hear an upset florist who voted leave, realises that her shop (which imports 100% of its short-life stock) may have to close on March 30th, but still thinks leaving is the right thing.

Self-harm, for nothing. Awful.

So leaving destroys your own business and puts you out of work but still wants to leave! Think I have reached the end of trying to work out other people. We all are oddballs.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think that's generous of you on Labour's position as nobody has actually know what their position was at the start of the referendum and particularly Corbyn who bumbled his answer every time he was asked. This lead to complete confusion and looking weak in the face of some absolute arsery from the Tories.

Labour waving through A50 when there was clearly no plan was their first dereliction of duty and it hasn't improved much since.

In fact Dominic Grieve has done more to try to stop the madness than most Labour frontbenchers.

 

[Tony Towner]

Corbyn tacitly supported remain whilst not really explaining the benefits of doing so to a core of traditional Labour voters who were always going to vote leave without that being explained to them properly by a political figure they respected. Therefore he knew that would be a large rump of votes in favour of leave which was always his personal objective.

He couldn't openly support the leave position because Momentum who put him as Labour leader were remain with their predominantly younger membership and the PLP who at that point he was already struggling to hold together would have imploded.

Cameron will always be number one in the blame game for this mess but Corbyn's disingenous actions motivated by his own ideology aren't really that far behind.

 

[Penk Wolf]

This is baffling




So leaving destroys your own business and puts you out of work but still wants to leave! Think I have reached the end of trying to work out other people. We all are oddballs.

I've seen a few people say, it's not just about me and now, it's about future generations.

There was a guy who owned an export company who said pretty much the same the other day and that he now felt even more that leave was the right thing to do.

I'd have thought this forum would have been congratulating these people as this forum always seem to prefer people who don't think about themselves first.

 

[Kenny]

I've seen a few people say, it's not just about me and now, it's about future generations.

There was a guy who owned an export company who said pretty much the same the other day and that he now felt even more that leave was the right thing to do.

I'd have thought this forum would have been congratulating these people as this forum always seem to prefer people who don't think about themselves first.

For some reason i call bullshit on folk saying that

 

[Penk Wolf]

For some reason i call bullshit on folk saying that

I can't find the link on twitter, but he basically never mentioned any reason why he wanted to leave just that we need to now for the sake of democracy.

 

[nimrod]

I can't find the link on twitter, but he basically never mentioned any reason why he wanted to leave just that we need to now for the sake of democracy.

and I call bullshit on folk saying that

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I've seen a few people say, it's not just about me and now, it's about future generations.

There was a guy who owned an export company who said pretty much the same the other day and that he now felt even more that leave was the right thing to do.

I'd have thought this forum would have been congratulating these people as this forum always seem to prefer people who don't think about themselves first.

Probably because the reasons they voted to leave have unravelled before their eyes and they aren’t big enough to admit they were wrong.

It won’t make any difference to immigration
We won’t trade effortlessly with Europe and the rest of the world
Taking back sovereignty doesn’t given them what they voted for
The NHS can’t afford the bus let alone the £350 million on the side of it

But it might be better in the future...