REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Paddingtonwolf]

Certainly not the withdrawal agreements. That just Leave voters talking utter bollocks.

 

[SLA]

Are you talking about the MEPs or the actual countries?

I not sure all 27 countries would vote to remain. I’m not sure all 27 parliaments would vote to stay.

With regard to their response to Brexit, I'm talking about the countries. The EUs negotiating position has been decided and agreed upon by all 27 and they are sticking by it rigidly.

And I'd be very surprised if there was any appetite right now for any other country to exit, having seen the absolute mess we're in.

 

[SLA]

I still believe the mess lies at the feet of the remainers in charge of getting us a Brexit. At this point it’s democracy and a no deal or how can we trust a democratic process ever again.

With all the remoaner and media scare mongering we’re in an absolute state as a country.

A simple analogy for you. If someone accidentally on purpose knocks a mug off a table and it smashes on the floor, who is to blame? The person who knocked the mug off, or the person who said, "Careful, you'll knock that mug off and it will smash?" And who should take responsibility for picking up the pieces?

 

[Penk Wolf]

With regard to their response to Brexit, I'm talking about the countries. The EUs negotiating position has been decided and agreed upon by all 27 and they are sticking by it rigidly.

And I'd be very surprised if there was any appetite right now for any other country to exit, having seen the absolute mess we're in.

Obviously, neither you or I can prove either way, but I guess the majority of Countries would vote similar margins to us with some going remain and some leave.

 

[SLA]

So it seems the Tory party has finally coalesced around a strategy - deliberately continue to make proposals that the EU 27 have already ruled out and won't budge on, and crash out with no deal. Thereby giving the ERG mob the hard Brexit they crave, and the soft Brexit/Remain Tories someone to blame other than themselves - the intransigent EU. A message which will be quite easy to sell come the next general election.
Judging by some recent posts on here, the "blame the EU" message is already beginning to take hold.

 

[SLA]

Obviously, neither you or I can prove either way, but I guess the majority of Countries would vote similar margins to us with some going remain and some leave.

No idea really, I don't follow the internal politics of other countries very closely, but I can't imagine their governments would be stupid enough to put it to a vote.

Speaking to my European colleagues and friends, I've yet to meet anyone who thinks what we've done is a sensible, attractive option. That's a small sample of like-minded people admittedly.

Actually, not quite true - my Swiss boss thinks Brexit is the most fantastic thing ever. But then he would like his own Swiss canton to secede from Switzerland and then have his village secede from the canton.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Had a great discussion/argument last night where 2 people who voted leave reckon that we have to take on the euro by 2021 if we stay in the EU. Not sure where they’ve got that story from.

It’s a widely shared social media post about the Lisbon Treaty. It’s wrong but when has that ever mattered?

 

[Langers]

I still believe the mess lies at the feet of the remainers in charge of getting us a Brexit. At this point it’s democracy and a no deal or how can we trust a democratic process ever again.

With all the remoaner and media scare mongering we’re in an absolute state as a country.

Just....wow. What a crock of utter shite.

 

[Johnny75]

So it seems the Tory party has finally coalesced around a strategy - deliberately continue to make proposals that the EU 27 have already ruled out and won't budge on, and crash out with no deal. Thereby giving the ERG mob the hard Brexit they crave, and the soft Brexit/Remain Tories someone to blame other than themselves - the intransigent EU. A message which will be quite easy to sell come the next general election.
Judging by some recent posts on here, the "blame the EU" message is already beginning to take hold.

I don't think those posters had any other views did they?

My annoyance with the EU is that they are being very stubborn and not speaking to the UK electorate directly, which I hoped they would do. An explanation rather than 'that's that' which just reinforces the leavers narrative that the EU is arrogant, rather than the truth that May and her government is incompetent.

The UK politicians aren't doing it and we need somebody to.

 

[Tony Towner]

As we discussed a couple of weeks ago, the EU's negotiation position irrespective of the rights and wrongs of it will harden the resolve within the wider public lead by the right wing press to leave without a deal. That's not in their interest, so it's time to at least see what can be done with the backstop, even though I'm not sure the answer exists whilst holding DUP and ERG support in Parliament. Simply saying 'no more negotiation' damages both of us, after yesterday's vote I'd say we are definitely leaving and if they think May's deal number 1 is going to get through Parliament then they are misguided, equally they are mistaken if they think we wouldn't be mad enough to crash out - we are.

I'm delighted James has posted. It shows us in our echo chamber what is being said in the real world and how people will believe anything they are told even when it stands up to zero objective scrutiny. I'd say he is closer to where the wider public is at than the majority on here are - or at least the original 52% of them

 

[Del Woppio]

Agree with that. James' view is the one held by the average man on the street imo. It's pretty much every call into LBC, before 10am and after 4pm.

 

[SLA]

If you think of it in terms of a divorce, I think the EU have gotten over us much quicker than we have them. We're still arguing over the record collection, they're just saying "fuck off - you chose to walk out. We've said you can have the Boyzone and Abba CDs, but we're not prepared to let you have valuable Beatles vinyl. Yes, it'll hurt us a bit, but like the Gloria Gaynor 45 which you're also not getting, we will survive."

 

[Langers]

Agree with that. James' view is the one held by the average man on the street imo. It's pretty much every call into LBC, before 10am and after 4pm.

Indeed. It'd be interesting to see what was on the 2016 Facebook timelines of the people I know who would still vote leave, as 'Brexit means Brexit'. And they absolutely would have been more than happy with just leaving with no deal back then. It's totes what they voted for.

4 legs good, 2 legs bad etc etc.

 

[Sedgley Wolf]

I still believe the mess lies at the feet of the remainers in charge of getting us a Brexit. At this point it’s democracy and a no deal or how can we trust a democratic process ever again.

With all the remoaner and media scare mongering we’re in an absolute state as a country.

I think this highlights how easily a significant number of people can be effectively brainwashed by the right-wing media. Remainers being responsible for the Brexit chaos; just think about what you've said there.

Scary stuff.

 

[jdrodrigues]

A negotiation is only possible when there is a reachable middle ground.

The EU has no further ground to give, without going all in on the demands of the UK. Likewise, the UK is demanding more, without being able to offer more. Asking the EU to concede without any further concession in return is arrogant and short sighted. It will be refused.

Also, some are talking about the arrogance of the EU and member states but fail, or don't want to grasp that this is exactly the vision most of the EU has of the UK. Arrogant, spoilt children who try to cherry pick the treaties which it signs, giving fuck all to the union project. Good examples are the Euro-zone and the pre-referendum discussions / articles of getting away with whatever the UK wanted, because the wishes of the UK shall not be denied.

To many Europeans all this is looking like poetic justice. Short-sighted as it may be.

 

[Kenny]

Tusk and May will be speaking on the phone at 5.45 this afternoon. I reckon by 5.46 the deal MP's voted for yesterday will be officially dead.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Unfortunately, the future United Kingdom that my kids will grow up in is being decided by people like James. This is why the referendum was such a monumentally stupid idea in the first place.

James/'the man on the street' is either to ignorant to understand the ramifications of a no deal Brexit or they do understand it and are quite happy to accept the consequences because leaving the EU is more important to them than anything else. Either way, they can all fuck off.

 

[Johnny75]

Digby Jones on Newsnight last night lied again on camera saying that he voted knowing we'd be worse off economically. (He previously said not 1 job will be lost following Brexit).

It's bizarre these lying twats are getting away with this crap.

 

[Kenny]

Digby Jones on Newsnight last night lied again on camera saying that he voted knowing we'd be worse off economically. (He previously said not 1 job will be lost following Brexit).

It's bizarre these lying twats are getting away with this crap.

The last 4 or 5 years have seen us enter a period where folk can lie and do it in camera or in print and then be able to stand there and deny it. Look at BoJo the other week, blatant lies and no one pulls him up on it. We really are experiencing a very shameful time and our media are key to that.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Unfortunately, the future United Kingdom that my kids will grow up in is being decided by people like James. This is why the referendum was such a monumentally stupid idea in the first place.

James/'the man on the street' is either to ignorant to understand the ramifications of a no deal Brexit or they do understand it and are quite happy to accept the consequences because leaving the EU is more important to them than anything else. Either way, they can all fuck off.

I think that is very unfair unless you know exactly what the UK is going to look like in 10 year, 15 years or 20 years time.

I'm pretty sure we will have a free trade with the EU once it has all settled down and they have accepted that we are no longer part of it as free trade is better for both sides of the fence. Equally, we will also have negotiated free trade deals with nations further afield too. There will also be a small matter of the £8.9bn net contribution that is made.

Yes, we are going to have a lot of pain for the next 10 years or so, to the extent that I am not prepared to except, but I don't think my kids will suffer from Brexit.