Refereeing question

[VanWolfie]

There were several critical calls in tonight's game and Michael Oliver got them all correct. He, Mark Clattenberg, and Mike Dean are the top three referees at the moment.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

There were several critical calls in tonight's game and Michael Oliver got them all correct. He, Mark Clattenberg, and Mike Dean are the top three referees at the moment.

Agreed. Clattenberg has done very well to return from his off field problems, and the Chelsea incident. He now looks a much more accomplished referee. Mike Dean has been one of the most consistent referees for a while now. As for Michael Oliver, after a difficult start in the Premier League, he is now regarded as the best of the current crop. He does not shy away from difficult decisions, as he proved last night at Old Trafford.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Howard Webb has been appointed as performance director for England's professional referees. He will be in charge of the select group of referees, and will make appointments for Premier League games.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Still disappointed he retired. More pay and more stable job than going all round Europe every week?

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Still disappointed he retired. More pay and more stable job than going all round Europe every week?

He will end up being in overall control of referees in this country. And although this is in its infancy, there are plans for a major upheavel in how referees are trained, assessed , promoted and mentored. But first we need everyone on board.

 

[Sniffer]

He will end up being in overall control of referees in this country. And although this is in its infancy, there are plans for a major upheavel in how referees are trained, assessed , promoted and mentored. But first we need everyone on board.

I'm in - where do I sign?

 

[FrankMunro-371]

The laws of the game regarding denying an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity states:

Sending off offences - denying an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the players goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or penalty kick.

While the law does not state "last man", the wording of the law is quite clear, and based on that law, Batth should have been sent off.

 

[Tredman]

Looked like bent was going away from the goal at the point of offence to me.

 

[The Bear]

The laws of the game regarding denying an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity states:

Sending off offences - denying an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the players goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or penalty kick.

While the law does not state "last man", the wording of the law is quite clear, and based on that law, Batth should have been sent off.

You're ingnoring the criteria set out by both the FA and FIFA, as I posted earlier.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

You're ingnoring the criteria set out by both the FA and FIFA, as I posted earlier.

I am not ignoring them Mr Bear. But "likelihoods and probabilities" are not mentioned in law 12 of Association Football.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I don't think it was a clear goal scoring opportunity as there was minimal contact which I don't think stopped him getting the ball as I don't think he was getting there anyway. And if we say he was, he was going away from goal and on an angle.

The ref should have let play continue, but had he not blown his whistle there is no guaranteeing the outcome would have been the same. TK may have dealt with it differently or Ince may have fluffed it under pressure.

Saying all this, I haven't seen it again as forgot to record the game so I could be talking bollocks

 

[FrankMunro-371]

May I just put forward a hypothetical situation. A player is running towards goal with only the goalkeeper to beat. As he tries to round the goalkeeper, the goalkeeper brings him down. Now at the moment of inpact the player would not have been running directly at goal, but he would still have been denied an obvious goalscoring opportunity.

Now last night the Derny player may not have been running directly at goal, but forwards rarely do, they try to get an angle from which to score. The referee felt that a foul had been committed, and he really had no alternative other than send the Wolves player for an early bath...! Though if he had delayed blowing his whistle then he would not have got himself into that situation.

 

[Tony Towner]

You are the ref Frank, but I always thought that if the ball was likely to run through to the keeper that is not an obvious goalscoring opportunity and therefore not a red? If TK is 3 yds further back then it is. That said he should have played the advantage and pulled it back if there proved to not be one

 

[Del Woppio]

I'm with Frank. Definitely a red.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Yeah obviously that is a clear goal scoring opportunity as he has the ball and it's an open goal. Darren Bent never had the ball, and IMO was never getting it, and it wasn't an open goal.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not sure it's a foregone conclusion that Ince scores there if the game's live. Look at Batth's challenge to try and block it, not exactly his normal commitment.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I'm not sure it's a foregone conclusion that Ince scores there if the game's live. Look at Batth's challenge to try and block it, not exactly his normal commitment.

Agreed.

But to be fair to the ref, he didn't let play run as why would he think there would be an advantage? He probably thought the goalkeeper would deal with the situation.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

After another weekend of controversy, with Messrs Pulis and Pearson both being very upset with the match officials, not to mention major issues in the Championship at Bournemouth, Huddersfield and Wolves, I would ask the question, what can be done about the current problems? Every referee that I know is honest and goes out there to do their very best, but clearly some issues need addressing, and while people may call for more use of technology, it is worth mentioning that technology is not available at all levels of the game. The problems in the top divisions are also there in the non league game. There is a meeting being held this week, where one of the topics will be the current standard of match officials. But what can be done to help them?

 

[Johnny75]

All games at professional are filmed (and some at semi-pro) therefore football could adopt a rugby system where the ref asks a 4th official a certain question and bases his decisiin on that. It is not used liberally in rugby or for every decision and the same approach should be used for football.

I would advocate the use of sin bins as an addition to the caution system.

Retrospective discipline for diving and cheating in general.

 

[nimrod]

if tv is available it obviously should be used. it's dumb not to. the only question should be the extent and manner of the use. of course the managers who criticise referees for bad decisions would probably scream blue murder if you also suggest their players who cheat are banned for a period. but there should be a standard review where anyone caught diving serves a lengthy time out, perhaps with a sliding scale for repeat offenders and the more blatant cheats. this for me includes minimal contact dives which have appeared to become acceptable in the eyes of the media. I'd like that reversed immediately. fat chance though.