Refereeing question

[FrankMunro-371]

Agree entirely.

You perform your responsibility as fully and as well as you possibly can, if your superior then chooses to overlook what you've done and go off in another direction then that's their call, you've done your bit, highlighted the issues and you've covered your own back. If you decide to do a half arsed job because the superior is just going to ignore you then you open yourself up to abuse, the superior can dump all the blame back on you for not pointing out the issue in the first place and making out that they were poorly informed.

In the pre match team talk, assistants are expected to follow the instructions given to them by the referee. And in very pre match briefing I have attended, the instructions have been consistent. Assistants do not flag when the referee is in a better position to make a judgement.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

In the pre match team talk, assistants are expected to follow the instructions given to them by the referee. And in very pre match briefing I have attended, the instructions have been consistent. Assistants do not flag when the referee is in a better position to make a judgement.

He wasn't in a better position though was he? He couldn't see!

Surely it would be better if everyone just chimed in with what they could see, bollocks to the pre determined areas they're supposed to be in charge of, then the man in charge can use his judgement to decide what to do.

I think that would've worked pretty well in this instance, referee doesn't see the foul, cant really blame him when a big ol' unit like Sissoko wanders across his line of sight, but the assistant does see something so he lets the referee know what's happened, referee then makes a decision based on what his assistant has told him. Seems a whole lot better than an assistant casually turning a blind eye to a potentially career wrecking challenge because the referee had told him that area of the pitch wasn't for him, it's a bullshit system Frank, if that's the accepted way for all referees to go about the game then the whole fucking thing needs tearing to pieces.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

But Mark, the assistant did not turn a blind eye. The referee was closer to the incident, and he should have got himself in position to see the tackle.

People have been saying that it was not the referees fault that he missed the tackle, and the blame seems to being laid on an assistant who would not have been expected to make the call on any decision in that part of the pitch. I make no apologies for saying that I believe that Mr Halsey should have been in a better position to make the decision. I know that he passed his fitness test with ease, so had I been assessing him, I would have questioned his positioning and movement.

Having said that I am disappointed that the FA did not take action.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Well the assistant has turned a blind eye, as the picture earlier in the thread shows he had a clear view but did nothing to bring it to the attention of the referee.

I think its harsh to knock Halsey's positioning, Sissoko has just run across him, it happens, its a split second thing.

One of the officials has seen something but haven't made the call, its shit, but then they say they saw it at the appeal so nothing more is done. Cowardly it is Frank and its a fucking disgrace.

 

[lemonjelly]

I believe the day after Graham Poll suggested Halsey should retire...

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

As good as, yes

 

[FrankMunro-371]

G

Well the assistant has turned a blind eye, as the picture earlier in the thread shows he had a clear view but did nothing to bring it to the attention of the referee.

I think its harsh to knock Halsey's positioning, Sissoko has just run across him, it happens, its a split second thing.

One of the officials has seen something but haven't made the call, its shit, but then they say they saw it at the appeal so nothing more is done. Cowardly it is Frank and its a fucking disgrace.

I must disagree with you. The assistant was doing his job as instructed by the referee, but I think we may have to agree to disagree.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

G

Well the assistant has turned a blind eye, as the picture earlier in the thread shows he had a clear view but did nothing to bring it to the attention of the referee.

I think its harsh to knock Halsey's positioning, Sissoko has just run across him, it happens, its a split second thing.

One of the officials has seen something but haven't made the call, its shit, but then they say they saw it at the appeal so nothing more is done. Cowardly it is Frank and its a fucking disgrace.

I must disagree with you. The assistant was doing his job as instructed by the referee, but I think we may have to agree to disagree.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

G

I must disagree with you. The assistant was doing his job as instructed by the referee, but I think we may have to agree to disagree.

So say you were running the line and the referee had told you a certain area of the pitch was outside of your responsibility, then a player suffers a serious injury as a result of an horrific challenge in that area of the pitch which the referee misses due to a player running across him, do you let the referee know what you've seen or do you sit on your hands content that you've done as you've been told and watch a young man scream in agony on the floor?

 

[Tony Towner]

The linesman doesnt even have to flag! he can just say down the ear piece '$#@! me thats a bad one'. The ref can then take action or ignore it

That is the most salient post of the entire thread

 

[FrankMunro-371]

So say you were running the line and the referee had told you a certain area of the pitch was outside of your responsibility, then a player suffers a serious injury as a result of an horrific challenge in that area of the pitch which the referee misses due to a player running across him, do you let the referee know what you've seen or do you sit on your hands content that you've done as you've been told and watch a young man scream in agony on the floor?

If the referee was closer than me, he would not thank me for making a decision like that. And the assessor would almost certainly ask why an assistant was making a call of such importance when the play was clearly in the referees patrol path. Further more, had I flagged it, the referee would almost certainly have overruled me, stood by his decision, and give me a telling off afterwards.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

If the referee was closer than me, he would not thank me for making a decision like that. And the assessor would almost certainly ask why an assistant was making a call of such importance when the play was clearly in the referees patrol path. Further more, had I flagged it, the referee would almost certainly have overruled me, stood by his decision, and give me a telling off afterwards.

So you wouldn't put your flag up for fear of a bollocking?

Sounds like great officiating, fuck that guy with the potentially broken leg, protect your own pride.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Why bother with linesmen then? The only time they have any authority is offside. Even the team to be awarded the throw they wait for the referee to call it and then agree, rather than flag correctly when they have the best view.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Why bother with linesmen then? The only time they have any authority is offside. Even the team to be awarded the throw they wait for the referee to call it and then agree, rather than flag correctly when they have the best view.

Exactly, we all know by now that the whole appeal process is set up in a way to protect the referee and his initial decision, now it seems like assistants are told to do their jobs in a way that does the same, seems like the football match comes a distant second to the pride of the referee these days.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I can understand that stance in an amateur game, where the linesmen probably aren't properly qualified, I wouldn't want some unqualified numpty in a tracksuit overruling me. But in the Premier League, sorry, no.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I can understand that stance in an amateur game, where the linesmen probably aren't properly qualified, I wouldn't want some unqualified numpty in a tracksuit overruling me. But in the Premier League, sorry, no.

I dont think it's so much being overruled by the linesman anyway, they're just offering their opinion, their perspective, then it's upto the referee to decide whether he thinks they've had a better view and thus are likely to have the advantage in making the correct decision. You've then got to question whether a referee is going to be humble enough to take someone else's opinion rather than stick to his own.

If you'd been in Halsey's position on that McManaman challenge you cant really see shit for yourself because Sissoko runs across you, you see your linesman flagging so you go and ask him what went down, shouldn't be too much of a stretch to think to yourself 'I couldn't see that myself, i'll go with his take on it' then send the lad off for an horrendous challenge.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If you'd been in Halsey's position on that McManaman challenge you cant really see shit for yourself because Sissoko runs across you, you see your linesman flagging so you go and ask him what went down, shouldn't be too much of a stretch to think to yourself 'I couldn't see that myself, i'll go with his take on it' then send the lad off for an horrendous challenge.

I agree. It's Yanga-Mbiwa who runs across by the way, it's his poor, way overhit pass which causes Haidara to only half-control it and the ball to run free. Not that that exonerates Halsey and his merry band in the slightest.

I remember a game in the mid 90s down here, Uriah Rennie was the ref, and he gave us a penalty after consulting with the linesman who was much better positioned, an example of really good refereeing. Then he turned into an utter buffoon in the years to come. Halsey was well regarded a few years back too but he has been horrific for a long long time now, and not just against us. The authorities need some kind of independent assessment process, be it from ex-players, ex-managers, fans, whoever. Keeping it all in-house just makes it look like a boys' club.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I agree. It's Yanga-Mbiwa who runs across by the way, it's his poor, way overhit pass which causes Haidara to only half-control it and the ball to run free. Not that that exonerates Halsey and his merry band in the slightest.

I remember a game in the mid 90s down here, Uriah Rennie was the ref, and he gave us a penalty after consulting with the linesman who was much better positioned, an example of really good refereeing. Then he turned into an utter buffoon in the years to come. Halsey was well regarded a few years back too but he has been horrific for a long long time now, and not just against us. The authorities need some kind of independent assessment process, be it from ex-players, ex-managers, fans, whoever. Keeping it all in-house just makes it look like a boys' club.

My bad, Frank laid into Halsey quite a bit earlier on about his positioning but i think something like that cant really be helped, it's just a split second thing with a player running across your field of view like that, even still Halsey probably could've had a fair guess at what had happened but you can understand why he wouldn't just want to guess about something that should've bought a red card.

I think linesman should be encouraged to flag for everything they see as early as possible, anything they think is wrong they should point out to the referee and then it's up to him to make the decision on what to do with that information. One of my biggest hates for that is when the linesman waits to flag offside until a player comes near the ball, just flag him offside as soon as you spot it, you've got a microphone to tell the referee which player you're flagging and then it's upto him to decide whether that player is interfering or not.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Sorry Frank, i dont understand this 'flagging' bollocks/ over ruling the ref. This why they have microphones? No one in the ground or on the pitch would know who made the decision, just that the correct decision was made due to the officials actually talking to each other!

E.g

Halsey: woah what happened there i couldnt see as someone ran across me?
Lino: looked a real bad one to me boss
Halsey: How bad? Sending off bad?
Lino: Yeah one of the worst of seen.

Halsey can now do what he wants! And its on him. Then in the report he says what he did. If in retrospect a bad decision is made, then you can easily pin the blame. If in this case he didnt send him off despite what the lino said, then he should be punished. If the lino said it wasnt worthy of punishement, he should be punished etc.

It really isnt rocket science

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd also like to know how the linesman is possibly meant to assess what the ref can and can't see, or what exactly he's looking at at any point in time. Imagine being witness to a robbery somewhere and wandering off thinking "oh well, that bloke over there probably saw it as well".

Surely you make best use of the tools (lol) available and in this case you have three sets of eyes, bloody well use them. It's not the jungle, there's no such thing as someone's "territory".