Norwich (A) 31/10 Build-Up Thread #bogeyteam #mayaswellnotbother

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Nah,captain or not,if there's a better player to come in(which there is) who was part of an excellent defence until he got injured,he gets dropped,being captain is incidental

Well i can't agree with that at all, and that is where i think fans understanding of the inner workings of a football teams spirit is lacking.

 

[Alan]

So, by your thinking as we have been poor for a couple of seasons with Batth as captain and thus he deserves criticism, but lets say (and hope) we go up as Champions with Batth as captain he also wouldn't deserve any credit? Interesting.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

If we go up this season as Champions with Batth having retained his place and the armband throughout the season then he will be in for a heap of well-deserved credit. However, as of now it is clear that the true leader on the pitch is Conor Coady and we have not yet gone up as Champions, whereas the past two seasons actually did happen and the piss poor leadership of Batth over that time must be taken responsibility for.

 

[Siggy]

I think if there was going to be a hissy fit of sorts it would have happened at the beginning of the season, it didn't.

We as fans can only judge based on what we see and hear, from what I have seen and heard Coady comes across as a far better talker and has generally in his play lead by example when captain. Batth on the other hand has had some terrible dips in form whilst holding the armband and in reality I think its more of a hindrance than a help in his case.

The Williamson example is spot on IMO when he came in on loan we were instantly 100% better organised, coincidence? I think not.

You actually need several captains in a side, it is just that only 1 wears the armband.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Batth deserves great praise for the majority of his play in September and October. He's been really good. As I say, I'd play him tomorrow and leave Miranda out.

But he hasn't become an on-pitch leader in that time and I can't pick up any indication whatsoever from this squad that they'd be demotivated if he dropped out. It's totally baseless.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Please don't put words in my mouth.

If we go up this season as Champions with Batth having retained his place and the armband throughout the season then he will be in for a heap of well-deserved credit. However, as of now it is clear that the true leader on the pitch is Conor Coady and we have not yet gone up as Champions, whereas the past two seasons actually did happen and the piss poor leadership of Batth over that time must be taken responsibility for.

Well so far Batth has been captain for all but the first 3 games of the season (i think?) have we not done well during that period?

If you are going to give criticism for the last 2 seasons, then he deserves credit for our start so far.

Calling him a bad captain is contradictory, as he is captain now.

 

[Alan]

He wears the armband, but Coady is the leader.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Ah good - another circuitous discussion

I'm pleased for Batth in the progress he has made and for him buying into the style of football Nuno wants to see. As for the Captaincy & affect on team spirit really can't see that there has been much change in that whether Batth has been picked or dropped so whatever the merits of the basic premise in some situations it is clearly not the case that it would do any damage to our spirit

 

[Johnny75]

Well i've clarified it a couple of times, but i'll do it once again.

As Batth is captain, and if Nuno is looking at dropping him, him being captain should play some part in the thought process.

You're wrong. It's a ridiculous argument.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Batth deserves great praise for the majority of his play in September and October. He's been really good. As I say, I'd play him tomorrow and leave Miranda out.

But he hasn't become an on-pitch leader in that time and I can't pick up any indication whatsoever from this squad that they'd be demotivated if he dropped out. It's totally baseless.

Well for one, the fact that he didn't start the season in the first team, didn't moan in the press and has come back and produced his best form for the club would be seen by others (and me) as displaying leadership qualities.

As i say, we don't know what Batth is like on a day to day basis in the club with the players, and we aren't likely to really, it was only a few months ago that it became clear how popular Coady was and he's been at the club a few years now.

Also there must be a reason that successive managers have continued to pick him as captain?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You're wrong. It's a ridiculous argument.

Let me turn this around.

If we were considering dropping Coady, who we all agree has leadership qualities, would the effect he has on the team from that point of view not come into the thought process?

 

[Johnny75]

Well i can't agree with that at all, and that is where i think fans understanding of the inner workings of a football teams spirit is lacking.

As you seem to have put yourself forward as the all knowledgeable one on this how about you inform us all why we are wrong.

 

[Johnny75]

Well i think that given your opinion you lack understanding of what a TEAM and squad represent.

Enlighten me. What don't I understand?

 

[YoungWolf]

As i say, we don't know what Batth is like on a day to day basis in the club with the players, and we aren't likely to really

This is absolutely true but that doesn't mean he needs to be in the team on the Saturday does it?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Enlighten me. What don't I understand?

If we were considering dropping Coady, who we all agree has leadership qualities, would the effect he has on the team from that point of view not come into the thought process?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Well i can't agree with that at all, and that is where i think fans understanding of the inner workings of a football teams spirit is lacking.

Surely every team's mentality is going to be different?

I'm assuming your opinion is based on your experience playing, so for every player like you who'd be getting any bleary eyed about your imperious leader being dropped there must be just as many who'd be feeling aggrieved that various players performing well were being left out of the team just because someone else has got a special bit of fabric wrapped around their bicep.

As with so many things in professional sport, we only know a tiny bit of the story from the outside looking in, we have no idea what the dynamic is in that dressing room so we've no clue of knowing how any one player or the squad as a whole will react to changes, for all we know there are plenty of lads in that changing room with a poor opinion of Batth, they might see him as some plucky plodder who's been elevated his level because his local lad status gets extra kudos from the braying masses, they might like to see him knocked down a peg or two and someone they feel more deserving to step into his shoes. Likewise, they could all go hope and pray at the feet of lifesize marble statues of the beast from Brierley Hill, mass suicides could follow the unjust demotion of the phenomenal force than is Danny Batth.

You have no better idea how that decision would upset the dressing room than I or any other member on this forum.

 

[Siggy]

Well for one, the fact that he didn't start the season in the first team, didn't moan in the press and has come back and produced his best form for the club would be seen by others (and me) as displaying leadership qualities.

As i say, we don't know what Batth is like on a day to day basis in the club with the players, and we aren't likely to really, it was only a few months ago that it became clear how popular Coady was and he's been at the club a few years now.

Also there must be a reason that successive managers have continued to pick him as captain?

Successive managers picked Dave Edwards over other options (including Saiss) in our midfield, those managers in each case have not gone on to bigger and better things.

Batth being captain now is down to continuity if you ask me, which is important when bringing in a number of new players.

At the start of next season I will be very very surprised if DB is still our captain.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

As with so many things in professional sport, we only know a tiny bit of the story from the outside looking in, we have no idea what the dynamic is in that dressing room so we've no clue of knowing how any one player or the squad as a whole will react to changes, for all we know there are plenty of lads in that changing room with a poor opinion of Batth, they might see him as some plucky plodder who's been elevated his level because his local lad status gets extra kudos from the braying masses, they might like to see him knocked down a peg or two and someone they feel more deserving to step into his shoes. Likewise, they could all go hope and pray at the feet of lifesize marble statues of the beast from Brierley Hill, mass suicides could follow the unjust demotion of the phenomenal force than is Danny Batth.

You have no better idea how that decision would upset the dressing room than I or any other member on this forum.

And you are effectively making my point for me here, as I am saying (and you are saying) that dropping your captain would have more of an effect that just dropping a player who isn't captain.

That is exactly what people are arguing with me about and telling me i'm ridiculous for saying.

Dropping Batth WOULD have more of an effect on team spirit (one way or another) than dropping Miranda (for example) because he is captain, a lot of you are talking as if it has no bearing at all, and that is 100% wrong.

 

[Siggy]

And you are effectively making my point for me here, as I am saying (and you are saying) that dropping your captain would have more of an effect that just dropping a player who isn't captain.

That is exactly what people are arguing with me about and telling me i'm ridiculous for saying.

Dropping Batth WOULD have more of an effect on team spirit (one way or another) than dropping Miranda (for example) because he is captain, a lot of you are talking as if it has no bearing at all, and that is 100% wrong.

He is not saying would he is saying could, there is a big difference.

 

[Johnny75]

And you are effectively making my point for me here, as I am saying (and you are saying) that dropping your captain would have more of an effect that just dropping a player who isn't captain.

That is exactly what people are arguing with me about and telling me i'm ridiculous for saying.

Dropping Batth WOULD have more of an effect on team spirit (one way or another) than dropping Miranda (for example) because he is captain, a lot of you are talking as if it has no bearing at all, and that is 100% wrong.

Bollocks. You can't prove that either way (which I think is Mark's point).

 

[playtheace]

As Deutsch pointed out, 7 in 16 is a good return. Gives Batth problems too.

Have you got the stats to prove QPR's and Burton's pitches are bigger than ours? And the latter biggest in the league?! Can't find the numbers online - surely that isn't true?

My mistake, sure i read it somewhere....anyways.....sizes.

Stadium	Length (m)	Width (m)	Area (m[SUP]2[/SUP])
Portman Road Ipswich Town	102	75	7,650
The City Ground Nottingham Forest	105	71	7,455
Riverside Stadium Middlesbrough FC	105	69	7,245
The Den Millwall	106	68	7,208
The Stadium Of Light Sunderland AFC	105	68	7,140
Villa Park Aston Villa FC	105	68	7,140
The KCOM Stadium Hull City AFC	105	68	7,140
Pride Park Derby County	105	68	7,140
Elland Road Leeds United	105	68	7,140
Madjeski Stadium Reading	105	68	7,140
Ashton Gate Bristol City	105	68	7,140
Carrow Road Norwich City FC	104	68	7,072
Deepdale Preston North End	101	69	6,969
Hillsborough Sheffield Wednesday	106	65	6,890
Cardiff City Stadium Cardiff City / Wales	101	68	6,868
Craven Cottage Fulham	100	68	6,800
Oakwell Stadium Barnsley	100	68	6,800
Loftus Road Queens Park Rangers	102	66	6,732
Griffin Park Brentford	100	67	6,700
Bramall Lane Sheffield United	102	65	6,630
St Andrew’s Birmingham City	100	66	6,600
The Macron Stadium Bolton Wanderers	100	66	6,600
Pirelli Stadium Burton Albion	100	65	6,500
Molineux Wolverhampton Wanderers	100	64	6,400