New - The things that really annoy you

[Johnny75]

I mean fair enough, your culture has been lead down the incorrect path so understand you can't help but be wrong on this.

Lectured by an American on culture

 

[PuntsWolf]

Could be regional differences of course. Milk is absolutely not cheap at that scale, particularly when you consider the logistics involved with production, shipping, refrigeration, etc. Spilling milk was tantamount to a crime when I worked at Starbucks. It was drilled into us hard that milk was by far the most expensive ingredient we worked with.

If you're a brewed coffee drinker, you're keeping the lights on for most places. Pretty sure the margin for our brewed coffees was ~35%. For milk based drinks it could dip as low as 2%. And that's Starbucks, who own just about every link in their distribution chain. Things become much, much tougher for smaller cafés who can see milk based margins dip below 1%.

Don’t know where you guys get your milk from but a year or so a go I could get 6 pints for £1.20 (now £2.30). If I was buying 100 pints I think it would be a bit cheaper… That’s a lot of middle men taking a cut. Going straight into the shop with more bulk I could bring down the price significantly.


Also restaurants have got walk in fridges (and freezers) storing a shit ton of food. Your storing milk (a pretty easy food to store) not fillet steak…

It's also worth pointing out that "coffee beans are cheap" is due in no small part to huge swathes of coffee farmers being paid what could generously be called a poverty wage.

Same applies to most food though unfortunately. When I buy a banana for 10p that’s travelled half way round the world in a massive fridge, the farmer is getting paid fuck all for that

 

[Alan]

Don’t know where you guys get your milk from but a year or so a go I could get 6 pints for £1.20 (now £2.30). If I was buying 100 pints I think it would be a bit cheaper… That’s a lot of middle men taking a cut. Going straight into the shop with more bulk I could bring down the price significantly.


Also restaurants have got walk in fridges (and freezers) storing a shit ton of food. Your storing milk (a pretty easy food to store) not fillet steak…

Same applies to most food though unfortunately. When I buy a banana for 10p that’s travelled half way round the world in a massive fridge, the farmer is getting paid fuck all for that

Fwiw a quick google will show that the average profit margin for privately owned cafés is usually around 2% annually in the US. And most operate at break-even or a loss for the first few years of operation.

 

[machin05]

Been to a bike meet today at Mallory Park, coffee is 50p, only instant but no worse than Costa bilge. In a proper mug too. My bacon and egg cob was £3.50 though.

As much as I dislike Costa, there's no way instant is in any way better (aside from price )

 

[machin05]

I do actually like coffee (I own an aeropress), I just come from a family of tea drinkers so didn’t start drinking coffee until fairly recently. I can’t drink it daily though whereas I have to have a cup of tea every morning.

I've started treating myself to a 9 minute aeropress coffee at the weekend. Sooo good.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Fwiw a quick google will show that the average profit margin for privately owned cafés is usually around 2% annually in the US. And most operate at break-even or a loss for the first few years of operation.

The original point was that it was underpriced. The Margin per cup is 93.5% as i thought. So it is no way “underpriced”, you can’t charge stupid money for something relatively basic. If you aren’t making money you are just not selling enough of it or not being efficient enough elsewhere.

Small shops may have razor thin margins as they don’t have the footfall and don’t benefit from economies of scale. Same thing goes for any small business. At 2% though doesn’t seem worth the bother. £1.5m turnover (500,000 cups of just coffee!) to make £30,000? Madness.

 

[Alan]

“Margin per cup” makes no sense to a business, they’re not thinking that small.

As I’ve worked in coffee and seen all of this firsthand, you’re not persuading me. I also think you’re talking about gross margin which does not include costs such as cup material, equipment, labor, rent, etc etc.

And the point on coffee being underpriced is entirely about the extent to which the labor which produces is undervalued. Guess what happens to the price of a coffee when you pay the farmers, shippers, and baristas a living wage?

 

[sycophantia]

As much as I dislike Costa, there's no way instant is in any way better (aside from price )

Not better, just not worse.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

All coffee is from satan. Tea is the only hot beverage to even think about.

 

[Del Woppio]

Birds. Cheeping, tweeting, wake-me-up-ing little shit fucks

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The original point was that it was underpriced. The Margin per cup is 93.5% as i thought. So it is no way “underpriced”, you can’t charge stupid money for something relatively basic. If you aren’t making money you are just not selling enough of it or not being efficient enough elsewhere.

Small shops may have razor thin margins as they don’t have the footfall and don’t benefit from economies of scale. Same thing goes for any small business. At 2% though doesn’t seem worth the bother. £1.5m turnover (500,000 cups of just coffee!) to make £30,000? Madness.

You think that's bad you should look at some big construction companies' profits. Where I work at the moment their record profit is about £38m off something like £1.6bn turnover and a lot more faffing about than making coffee, although we do also make a lot of shit coffee.

 

[PuntsWolf]

As I’ve worked in coffee and seen all of this firsthand, you’re not persuading me. I also think you’re talking about gross margin which does not include costs such as cup material, equipment, labor, rent, etc etc.

But this is my point. The product isn’t underpriced, your just not being efficient enough elsewhere and therefore not profitable. It’s not profitable to hire an expensive building to sell a small ticket item. The product isn’t too cheap, the running costs are too expensive. I can’t hire a building and pay people to sell toast, and then only make money by selling it for £5.

But anyway, the big shops are doing absolutely fine, so again, the product isn’t underpriced, they are more efficient selling it.

And the point on coffee being underpriced is entirely about the extent to which the labor which produces is undervalued. Guess what happens to the price of a coffee when you pay the farmers, shippers, and baristas a living wage?

The debate of whether we underpay farmers in poorer countries for these products is a seperate one. But the same applies to fruit, chocolate etc.
But if the price did go up then it would go up relatively to the consumer at home (the delightful coffee I made myself would cost me more than 20p it did cost) as well as to business, so the relative price change would be accepted. If small independents can only make profit by raising the price significantly on chains, without offering something significantly better, then they go bust as I doubt enough people will pay it.

You think that's bad you should look at some big construction companies' profits. Where I work at the moment their record profit is about £38m off something like £1.6bn turnover and a lot more faffing about than making coffee, although we do also make a lot of shit coffee.

Quite a bit more moving parts in construction! Also with raw materials prices sky rocketing I’m sure that won’t have helped. It’s standard for a lot of industries to only make small profits (or anything) relative to turnover. Basically make enough to pay off the loan/mortgage, then you eventually have the asset at the end to sell for cash. The poorly run ones go bust, the well run/good/efficient ones stay alive/thrive.

 

[Jabbawolf]

There’s a lot of focus on supply-side costs so far - the main reason coffee costs several pounds a cup is that people are simply willing to pay a premium for taste (yes, a good cappuccino is light years better than a cup of instant) and convenience.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

There's a reason why when high street retail is struggling, coffee shops are still springing up everywhere and usually rammed.

For quite a while now, it's absolutely remarkable how many people get a large paper cup of coffee and walk about with it.
They go into the local shop, get one then walk to the bus stop out side with it, down to the beach with it, get in the fucking car and drive with and even walk towards Bettystown with it. Loads of people walk around holding coffee!!

 

[lemonjelly]

Birds. Cheeping, tweeting, wake-me-up-ing little shit fucks

birdsong is absolutely wonderful!

 

[lemonjelly]

mrs jelly works in an arts centre, and told me yesterday a colleague bought a standard coffee with a staff discount. the staff discount brought the price down to £4.99!

 

[Del Woppio]

birdsong is absolutely wonderful!

Not at quarter to five it's not

 

[Jabbawolf]

birdsong is absolutely wonderful!

I stopped at my brother’s holiday home on Anglesey a few years ago, and the seagulls were very keen on visiting the old gaol over the street - fair to say the dawn chorus was anything but wonderful!

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The cockerel in the farm over the road isn’t fucking wonderful either. Noisy fucking cunt.

 

[leedswolf]

For quite a while now, it's absolutely remarkable how many people get a large paper cup of coffee and walk about with it.
They go into the local shop, get one then walk to the bus stop out side with it, down to the beach with it, get in the fucking car and drive with and even walk towards Bettystown with it. Loads of people walk around holding coffee!!

Probably because their time management is shit.