Keir Starmer at it again..

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'd have thought it was obvious. I'm more interested in why you keep avoiding giving an answer yourself.

Unusual for the far left to be shy when it comes to handing out moral lessons and preaching about the 'isms'?

I think the fact you're unaware of the Forde report and its findings says a lot.

 

[prawnking]

Erm. That's exactly what the Forde report reported.

It's a fact.

Wrong

Key takeaways from the Forde report on Labour factionalism

Inquiry is deeply critical of party workers who backed Jeremy Corbyn and those who opposed him

www.theguardian.com

'Anti-Corbyn staffers in Labour HQ did not deliberately try to throw the election, as some leftwingers have suggested'

 

[prawnking]

What the Forde report really highlights is how your Magic Grandpa presided ineffectually over a toxic shit show, with all factions shaming themselves

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Errr. Chaps. The enemy is OVER THERE.

 

[prawnking]

I think the fact you're unaware of the Forde report and its findings says a lot.

• The report concludes that disunity in the Party hampered its electoral fortunes and the overall functioning of the Party.
• However, the report does not substantiate claims that factionalism led to the Party’s general election defeat in 2017, although it criticises the existence of competing strategies.

From the Labour Party website.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Tactics by anti-Corbyn staff evidenced in the report include channelling resources to candidates associated with the right wing of the party, refusing to share information with the leader’s office, and “coming into the office and doing nothing for a few months” during the election campaign.

The report says hostile staff created a chat so they could pretend to work while actually speaking to each other, with one participant stating that “tap tap tapping away will make us look v busy”.

An election night chat log shows that 45 minutes after the exit poll revealed that Labour had overturned the Conservative majority, one senior official said the result was the “opposite to what I had been working towards for the last couple of years”, describing themselves and their allies as “silent and grey-faced” and in need of counselling.

Another said: “We have to be upbeat and not show it,” while a third told the group that “everyone needs to smile”, describing the result as “awful”. Another very senior party official said it was going to be “a long night”

The senior officials keenly watched polls during the election campaign and hoped that the party that employed them would fare badly. When one YouGov poll showed the party up during the campaign, one said: “I actually felt quite sick when I saw that YouGov poll last night.”

Another official argued that the polling bounce for the party was actually “great”, stating: “I shall tell you why, it is a peak, and the polling was done after the Manchester [terror] attack, so with a bit of luck this speech will show a clear polling decline and we shall all be able to point to how disgusting they truly are.”

Some senior staff also joked about “hanging and burning” Jeremy Corbyn, and suggested that another staff member who cheered a speech by the party leader “should be shot”.

In another exchange, one senior official laments that political advisers working for members of the shadow cabinet “have stopped wearing bras” and that there are “nipples out at the PADs [political advisers] meeting and not a single tie”. The official then names the adviser and describes her outfit, before suggesting that a male MP only “speaks highly” of the adviser because of her appearance.

During the 2015 and 2016 leadership contests a large number of staffers at Labour HQ appear to have worked to exclude those they regarded as “trots” from voting in the election – believing that they would vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

The report says staffers trawled social media to find reasons to exclude voters from the contest, work which was referred to on numerous occasions by staff as variations of “trot busting”, “bashing trots” and “trot spotting”. One staffer described themselves as being “trot smasher in chief”, while another said during the 2015 leadership election that the “priority right now is trot hunting”. In 2015 two officials discussed the fact that they were “playing trot or not” while “the real work is piling up”. A senior official described this work as “saving the Labour party”.

And

Commenting after this portion of the report was posted on social media, former shadow health secretary and leadership candidate Andy Burnham said: “Seems right to me. Always felt like the party machine opposed my pro-public NHS and social care policies between 2010 and 2015. Not sure I had even-handed treatment from them in either the 2010 or 2015 leadership elections.”

I could go on and on and on, but you really should be able to draw your own conclusions on the above incidents it's pretty bloody clear.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Wrong

Key takeaways from the Forde report on Labour factionalism

Inquiry is deeply critical of party workers who backed Jeremy Corbyn and those who opposed him

www.theguardian.com

'Anti-Corbyn staffers in Labour HQ did not deliberately try to throw the election, as some leftwingers have suggested'

You realise you're quoting the opinion of the article author there, not quoting the actual report?

The actual Forde Report quote

We find that both HQ staff and Loto staff wanted the party to win with as many of their favoured MPs in place as possible, which prevented fully objective decision-making; the two sides were trying to win in different ways.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Err. Corbyn didn’t overturn a majority at all in 2017. That’s laughable.

 

[prawnking]

I think the fact you're unaware of the Forde report and its findings says a lot.

While you're attempting to incorrectly lecture me on the findings of the report, I'd be interested in knowing yours and TPs thoughts on the primary finding of the report:

'The report highlights structural problems with the Party’s disciplinary processes with regards to antisemitism'


...but then again, you have both shown on this thread that you are very tolerant/ignorant of antisemitic tropes and seem to believe complaints of antisemitism are generally fake or smears, don't you?

 

[prawnking]

You realise you're quoting the opinion of the article author there, not quoting the actual report?

The actual Forde Report quote

You started this with four links to The Independent?!

And now you've rowed back again, and all you're doing is agreeing with my Magic Grandpa post?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You started this with four links to The Independent?!

And now you've rowed back again, and all you're doing is agreeing with my Magic Grandpa post?

I started with the findings of the leaked documents and have quoted them to make it easier for you, as I didn't expect you to read it.

You have then gone on to quote the author of an article rather than the Forde report itself?

How you can read the examples I've posted above plus Burnham's reaction to it and still standby "officials didnt work against Corbyn" is totally beyond me, you are guilty of exactly what you claim the "far left" are.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Err. Corbyn didn’t overturn a majority at all in 2017. That’s laughable.

What are you on about now?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Err. Corbyn didn’t overturn a majority at all in 2017. That’s laughable.

It didn't say he did. The exit poll said that, you're so keen to be right you're not even reading things properly.

An election night chat log shows that 45 minutes after the exit poll revealed that Labour had overturned the Conservative majority, one senior official said the result was the “opposite to what I had been working towards for the last couple of years”, describing themselves and their allies as “silent and grey-faced” and in need of counselling.

And those senior officials/officials were quite upset about the possibility of Corbyn winning as above. That's the point in what I'm saying, the right in the Labour party didn't want Corbyn to win, that's a fact.

Now I do want the Tories out, I voted for Starmer as leader and I will do it in the GE, that doesn't mean I can't criticise the way he his running the party in much the same way as many of you rightly criticised Corbyn when he was running it.

 

[prawnking]

I started with the findings of the leaked documents and have quoted them to make it easier.

You have then gone on to quote the author of an article rather than the Forde report itself.

How you can read the examples I've posted above plus Burnham's reaction to it and still standby "officials didnt work against Corbyn" is totally beyond me, you are guilty of exactly what you claim the "far left" are.

You've cherry picked examples to make it another conspiracy against Corbyn (for a change) whereas the truth is (as detailed in the report and in the summary on Labour's own website) that there were competing strategies in the dysfunctional party he presided over that hampered fortunes, but weren't responsible for the election defeat

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You've cherry picked examples to make it another conspiracy against Corbyn (for a change) whereas the truth is (as detailed in the report and in the summary on Labour's own website) that there were competing strategies in the dysfunctional party he presided over that hampered fortunes, but weren't responsible for the election defeat

I haven't cherry picked anything! I've given you several disturbing examples that back up my statement, and a quote from the Mayor of Manchester that clearly show that members in the senior Labour Party were working against JC, and you're just childishly dismissing them

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Well thank you for clearing up why I questioned your sanity in claiming Corbyn overturned a majority when he didn’t.

I also would happily aver that a much larger majority of the Labour right would have been delighted with a Labour government with Corbyn at the head than the Labour left would have been about a Labour government with Starmer at the head.

Reasons? Well they kept reasonably quiet and hoped he would deliver whereas the left seem to be doing everything in their power to undermine Starmer for what I can only assume are reasons of purity.

How about working together to Lance the boil of Conservative poison and then collaborate on policy when in power? Just a thought?

 

[prawnking]

Now I do want the Tories out, I voted for Starmer as leader and I will do it in the GE, that doesn't mean I can't criticise the way he his running the party in much the same way as many of you rightly criticised Corbyn when he was running it.

Why haven't you criticised the clearly documented antisemitism in Corbyn's Labour?

 

[prawnking]

I haven't cherry picked anything! I've given you several disturbing examples that back up my statement, and a quote from the Mayor of Manchester that members in the senior Labour Party were working against JC, and you're just childishly dismissing them.

But the report and Labour itself say it wasnt a case of working against Saint Jez, there were factions with competing strategies, both trying to get a Labour victory

 

[Tredman]

Quite how anyone could stay in the party and not actively campaign against an antisemitic regime is beyond understanding.

 

[prawnking]

Quite how anyone could stay in the party and not actively campaign against an antisemitic regime is beyond understanding.

You're talking to people on this thread who ignore antisemitic tropes and think any claims of it are fakes and smears (oh hello, Equality Act)