Keir Starmer at it again..

[Templeton Peck]

And Israel and Nazi Germany? Thoughts on that?

He talks about 'obvious similarities' between extreme right wing ideology in Israel and Nazi Germany.

 

[prawnking]

He talks about 'obvious similarities' between extreme right wing ideology in Israel and Nazi Germany.

So you think comparing the State of Israel to Nazi Germany is OK?

 

[Templeton Peck]

So you think comparing the State of Israel to Nazi Germany is OK?

He said right wing opinion, not the State of Israel.

 

[prawnking]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/14/pink-floyd-frontman-fury-israel-nazis

This was nearly 10 years ago when he was more moderate


Not sure why you're denying and downplaying this when he's repeated it multiple times over the years

Berliner Zeitung interview - Roger Waters

BERLINER ZEITUNG 4th FEBRUARY 2023 THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE Against the backdrop of the outrageous and despicable smear campaign by the ISRAELI […]

rogerwaters.com

Halfway down the page, from his own website

"You once compared the state of Israel to Nazi Germany. Do you still stand by this comparison?

Yes, of course. The Israelis are committing genocide."

 

[Templeton Peck]

Genocide is pushing it, but it ain't great is it?

Human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories

Stay up to date on the state of human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories with the latest research, campaigns and education material from Amnesty International.

www.amnesty.org

 

[prawnking]

So you think the comparison is fine?

 

[Johnny75]

I'm reminded of James O'Briens quote about Labour now 'being the party of Holocaust denial' or Heffer talking about Corbyn wanting to 'reopen Auschwitz'.

You could just answer the question.

I'll ask it again.

Do you believe the Holocaust happened?

 

[Dire Wolf]

I just need to get things clear here, I don't want to be confused. Clearly the Holocaust happened, I don't understand the point of asking the question. During the Holocaust millions of Jewish people were murdered in Nazi death camps. Horrific, of course. Because this happened, then, we are not allowed to criticise the Israeli state for any actions they take in Gaza and the West Bank? I presume then, because hundreds of thousands of Trade Unionists were also taken to death camps and murdered we are also not allowed to criticise the Trade Union movement for actions they take? I presume because hundreds of thousands of Socialists were also butchered in death camps we are not allowed to criticise any Socialist Parties? Gypsies? We cant criticise Travellers organisations? (I wouldn't, some on here possibly would) People with disabilities? We can't criticise Disability Rights groups? (Again, I wouldn't, can't see a reason why, but I'm sure there are people who have). I mean, I could go on, but the point is that the horrors of the Holocaust should not be a reason to allow Israel to do what it pleases to Palestinians. Should it?

 

[pr0sl0]

There's degrees of appropriateness with analogies and AS, more so than pretty much any other racism, because the history is so specific.

Like, there is an "Israel lobby", in the sense that there are lobbyists for Israel's interests in the capitals of other countries, there are Israeli companies that operate multinationally and fight for their own interests, there are public figures outside of Israel who are pro-Zionism and argue that position, etc. But it's not the only country with a "lobby", and it's definitely not some centralised cabal sitting around a table, plotting from the shadows. Not "puppet masters". Not "orchestrating" things. There are very important reasons why you just don't use that kind of language with Jewish people in particular, because that's very much one of the slanders that was used by a lot of people who wanted to (and did) murder millions of them.

Same with comparing them to Nazis. It's not particularly surprising that any ethnostate built on stolen land - and surrounded by a collection of countries which themselves are ethnically and politically and religiously connected to the people whose land was stolen, and with their own histories of antisemitism in the mix - would end up turning rightwards and becoming pretty violent and repressive in the name of self-defence, and especially when it has so much Western aid and military money propping it up. It's not the same situation as the Nazis though, is it? So hush your mouth, Roger, ffs. Not everything is the same as the Nazis!

 

[Dire Wolf]

That's a post that makes sense, and I can accept. "Do you believe the Holocaust happened?" is not. Its a lazy cheap shot of someone who either can't, or can't be bothered to articulate a reasoned and thought out response.

 

[Johnny75]

That's a post that makes sense, and I can accept. "Do you believe the Holocaust happened?" is not. Its a lazy cheap shot of someone who either can't, or can't be bothered to articulate a reasoned and thought out response.

The irony of this passive aggressive post can't be lost on you of all people surely?

 

[prawnking]

That's a post that makes sense, and I can accept. "Do you believe the Holocaust happened?" is not. Its a lazy cheap shot of someone who either can't, or can't be bothered to articulate a reasoned and thought out response.

I presume you've heard of Holocaust denial?

If so then saying 'clearly the Holocaust happened' is missing the point wildly when what we're discussing is anti-semitic tropes, many of which you guys seem perfectly happy to let go unchallenged or unacknowledged.

Ken Loach was challenged about taking part in a discussion which entertained the question of whether the Holocaust happened, and his defence was along the lines of 'history is there for us all to discuss'

Is that enough to clear your confusion?

 

[darlowolf64]

The Labour Party doesn't mess about when accusations are made.

Shadow minister Bambos Charalambous has been suspended as a Labour MP after a complaint about his conduct.

Labour shadow minister Bambos Charalambous suspended over complaint

The BBC has been told a complaint about Bambos Charalambous was made to Labour's complaint process.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Jolemai]

The Labour Party doesn't mess about when accusations are made.

Shadow minister Bambos Charalambous has been suspended as a Labour MP after a complaint about his conduct.

Labour shadow minister Bambos Charalambous suspended over complaint

The BBC has been told a complaint about Bambos Charalambous was made to Labour's complaint process.

www.bbc.co.uk

Surprised he has time to be a MP and be apart of the MCU tbh.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

The Labour Party doesn't mess about when accusations are made.

Shadow minister Bambos Charalambous has been suspended as a Labour MP after a complaint about his conduct.

Labour shadow minister Bambos Charalambous suspended over complaint

The BBC has been told a complaint about Bambos Charalambous was made to Labour's complaint process.

www.bbc.co.uk

MP Neil Coyle has Labour whip restored following suspension for harassing assistant and racially abusing journalist

The MP for Bermondsey and Old Southwark has been sitting in the Commons as an independent MP since his suspension from Labour last year.

news.sky.com

 

[Dire Wolf]

No hypocrisy or double standards in Starmer's Labour Party, no sir, none whatsoever...

 

[prawnking]

You've broken the irony detector there mate

 

[Templeton Peck]

The Labour Party doesn't mess about when accusations are made.

Shadow minister Bambos Charalambous has been suspended as a Labour MP after a complaint about his conduct.

Labour shadow minister Bambos Charalambous suspended over complaint

The BBC has been told a complaint about Bambos Charalambous was made to Labour's complaint process.

www.bbc.co.uk

Rumoured sexual assault.

 

[Dire Wolf]

You've broken the irony detector there mate

Yawn.

 

[Johnny75]

Yawn.

Twice in consecutive posts. Bravo sir.