• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

Keir Starmer at it again..

I think I probably should’ve said the left have at times tied themselves up in knots and the right have been successful exploiting that, but aside of that I agree with your post entirely
 
EpsomWolf said:
Starmer has made some terrible decisions but he was stuffed from the start. He was never going to be left enough for many and was only ever graced with the centre Tory vote on the basis he was seen as relatively safe while the Tories themselves were by any measure unforgivably bad. A sort of lose-lose so to speak.

Problem he and the Left worldwide in general have is the right have tied them up in knots on issues such as gender ideology, immigration and subsequent (lack of) security issues etc etc. Nuanced debates are lost and the immense amount of imagery available seemingly giving credence to those arguments is very powerful and overwhelming to any attempts at perspective. However despicable it is anyone would seek to gain an advantage from the terrible events of Southport, it’s affirmation or devastatingly undermining depending on your point of view.

Difficult to know where to go when attempts to shut down misinformation are presented as dangerous attempts to shut down free speech, or more precisely, stop ‘you’ seeing what ‘they’ don’t want you to see. I think it’s clear Starmer and Co are extremely concerned about further civil unrest and struggling to keep control, and there is some mileage around information that is being withheld because of that. Musk must be rubbing his hands when he’s positioned Starmer between a rock and a hard place with unregulated chaos playing straight into his hands and the only alternative being presented as the Left wanting to control the narrative and inadvertently turning us into a version of communist China.

Pretty clear the right here are bouyed by the events in America right now, and aside of Musk’s dark side manifesting itself in some sort of Trump/Musk implosion I’m not sure where any positives lie at all.
Click to expand...
Man preaching about nuanced debates while chucking around left/right stereotypes.
 
Never easy anyone having to face uncomfortable truths. I’d rather hear why the future is bright because the left are in the ascendancy as it doesn’t look very much like that to me at the moment.
 
Tony Towner said:
I'm pretty sure the farming climbdown is around the corner too now that the supermarkets have hypocritically all of a sudden become pro farmer after decades of running them into the ground.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it made local news round our way but farmers blockaded all of our car parks last weekend in Nottingham and Leicester. If they did this across a number of towns and cities and with each of the Big Six supermarkets it might explain supermarkets now throwing in with the NFU
 
Left wing views get no kind of platform in the MSM. Look at the coverage the Greens get compared to Reform and they're not even that left wing ffs. People barely know who their leaders are yet that cunt Farage has been splashed everywhere for 20 years.

'The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....'
 
On Starmer / the Government because despite the majority they didn't come in on a wave of populism there's not being a honeymoon period. I don't think there's a revenue raising mechanic that wouldn't have seen the negative blowback which has happened. Take the NI raise as an example, if that had been raised at source then it would have been a tax on working people and theyd have been hammered for it, they do it on employers who are more likely to be able to afford it and it allows the likes of Sainsbury's to use it as a reason for job cuts despite making £137m after tax last year. If they are guilty of anything then it's to naively think big businesses like that would just take the hit.

The whole farming thing has been weaponised. I think it's clunky, but the original reason for doing it was a sound one which most would get behind, however it's been hijacked by a lot of whataboutery and bad faith arguments, when relatively few genuine people will be impacted once the mitigating provisions are considered.

On top of that you have social media which is only going to get worse and full of opportunists with amplified voices. What once upon a time would be seen as a crank now has a voice, platform and audience. I've seen numerous 'think' pieces in the last few weeks on how he's the worst Prime Minister we've ever had, when he's not the worst we've had this year. Even now with all the Southport information out there, there's a lot of people believing that there was a cover up and information about an Islamist plot has been suppressed by the Government, even though the judge said he wasn't motivated by any particular ideology. So much is palpable rubbish, but when such a large percentage of the electorate gets their information from soundbites it sticks.

In summary I think he's fucked whatever he does media/social media wise. If I were him I'd implement the policies I believe in, ignore any noise, don't u turn on anything unless you think it's a genuine mistake. You aren't going to win, so don't try to, the Commons majority will enable him to enact whatever he likes. Do it and trust that in 4 years time the results lead to a strong economy and stand for the next GE on that platform.
 
Templeton Peck said:
Going exactly as expected for me. 5 years of inertia followed by fascism.
Click to expand...
I mean, in the General Election thread last year I seem to remember someone predicting what a Starmer led Government would be like and being told that you have to see what they do once they are in power. I've seen enough. They have opened the door for the far right and ushered them inside like a welcoming concierge. They are truly dreadful. Nye Bevin is turning in his grave at this bunch of fucking charlatans.
 
Dire Wolf said:
I mean, in the General Election thread last year I seem to remember someone predicting what a Starmer led Government would be like and being told that you have to see what they do once they are in power. I've seen enough. They have opened the door for the far right and ushered them inside like a welcoming concierge. They are truly dreadful. Nye Bevin is turning in his grave at this bunch of fucking charlatans.
Click to expand...
IMHO a tad over the top but I agree with your sense of frustration as the idealistic world we want is gone with the wind and unlikely to return for decades. A combination of oligarchs, the mass media, religion and capital is now very well entrenched and will ensure that.

A few points while I am sat here!

1. Nye Bevin didn't have to deal with the way international finance especially in The City controls the UK government nowadays.
2. The nation was more or less unified in demanding the Welfare State and the National Health Service after the horrors within living memory of two world wars, a major recession and a Spanish flu epidemic.
3. How have they opened the door for the far right? The powers that be in the country did that during 14 years of tory incompetence, corruption and lies, and also their laws with loopholes that you could drive a bus through.
4. Were you this forthright about the tories after a few months? Starmer's government hasn't even been in place a year let alone 14.
5. Looks like you've been soaking up msm propaganda or have been a little too optimistic about what any Labour government is allowed to do.

I may be wrong on the last two! ;-)

Yes, it is looking dire. With you, not against.
 
Wellen Wolf said:
IMHO a tad over the top but I agree with your sense of frustration as the idealistic world we want is gone with the wind and unlikely to return for decades. A combination of oligarchs, the mass media, religion and capital is now very well entrenched and will ensure that.

A few points while I am sat here!

1. Nye Bevin didn't have to deal with the way international finance especially in The City controls the UK government nowadays.
2. The nation was more or less unified in demanding the Welfare State and the National Health Service after the horrors within living memory of two world wars, a major recession and a Spanish flu epidemic.
3. How have they opened the door for the far right? The powers that be in the country did that during 14 years of tory incompetence, corruption and lies, and also their laws with loopholes that you could drive a bus through.
4. Were you this forthright about the tories after a few months? Starmer's government hasn't even been in place a year let alone 14.
5. Looks like you've been soaking up msm propaganda or have been a little too optimistic about what any Labour government is allowed to do.

I may be wrong on the last two! ;-)

Yes, it is looking dire. With you, not against.
Click to expand...
Some of us on this forum were pilloried as left wing extremists for suggesting all might not be well with Starmer and his gang. The general consensus was that he wasn't the Tories so there's no way it could be as bad. On that point, I will concede because the only thing worse than the Tories is Reform...and that's a close contest. Not being as bad as the Tories is not enough though. I argued before the election that they weren't offering hope beyond nebulous claims of "growth" and nothing much has changed.

They are talking about policies that, in theory, are growth promoting but they are not joined up. It's all well and good slapping huge house building targets all across the country and removing planning barriers...but you can't do that without the skilled labour force which we don't have in sufficient numbers. At the same time, there is a willing skilled labour force just across the channel....but you know, free movement!

Now they are on about deregulation, I assume they must mean a different sort of deregulation than has been a feature of UK government policy for decades which...has not been a significant driver of economic growth.

On their big headline decisions, time and again they have been found out to say one thing in opposition but done another in power. If we really are in the economic mess they say (I accept we are), then it is even more important that they don't keep shooting themselves in the foot and reinforcing the believe that politicians can't be trusted.

WASPI women was a big one for me. I am not a woman or Waspi, it doesn't impact me or my family directly. It is a matter of principle though. A principle that Labour stood for...until they didn't. Maybe we need to get Joanna Lumley to star in an ITV drama to really make them sit up and listen.

I genuinely don't believe that they will achieve anything in this parliament and they will be out of power at the next election and, apart from being the conduit by which a right wing government comes to power they will be a mere blip on the collective history of this country.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Some of us on this forum were pilloried as left wing extremists for suggesting all might not be well with Starmer and his gang. The general consensus was that he wasn't the Tories so there's no way it could be as bad. On that point, I will concede because the only thing worse than the Tories is Reform...and that's a close contest. Not being as bad as the Tories is not enough though. I argued before the election that they weren't offering hope beyond nebulous claims of "growth" and nothing much has changed.

They are talking about policies that, in theory, are growth promoting but they are not joined up. It's all well and good slapping huge house building targets all across the country and removing planning barriers...but you can't do that without the skilled labour force which we don't have in sufficient numbers. At the same time, there is a willing skilled labour force just across the channel....but you know, free movement!

Now they are on about deregulation, I assume they must mean a different sort of deregulation than has been a feature of UK government policy for decades which...has not been a significant driver of economic growth.

On their big headline decisions, time and again they have been found out to say one thing in opposition but done another in power. If we really are in the economic mess they say (I accept we are), then it is even more important that they don't keep shooting themselves in the foot and reinforcing the believe that politicians can't be trusted.

WASPI women was a big one for me. I am not a woman or Waspi, it doesn't impact me or my family directly. It is a matter of principle though. A principle that Labour stood for...until they didn't. Maybe we need to get Joanna Lumley to star in an ITV drama to really make them sit up and listen.

I genuinely don't believe that they will achieve anything in this parliament and they will be out of power at the next election and, apart from being the conduit by which a right wing government comes to power they will be a mere blip on the collective history of this country.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the constructive and open engagement. 100% with you on this.
I have quite simply given up hope of any civilised progress being made in the UK. Like many others on here, I have my ideals but in practice I can only do my best to engage with an internationalist, 'liberal', forward-looking and civilised agenda. I realised I couldn't do it under the class system and the despicable thatcherism that has become ingrained in the field of UK education and the wider society so I pissed off abroad decades ago.
More positively, my way of dealing with this degenerate crap is to be subversive in leading International Baccalaureate schools in the hope and idealism that such education sows seeds that will move a better agenda.
On Starmer, I think it's a hopeless cause although I do respect him and his team for attempting to moderate capitalist extremism on the islands. They have no chance though.
PS. Yes, nowadays I am labelled as a 'left wing extremist' as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Deutsch Wolf
Kemi Bad Enoch at it again
2 3
Replies
50
Views
3K
Tredman
Tredman
The Bear
  • Locked
Blackburn (FA Cup 4th Round) 9/2, Build Up & Match Thread
11 12 13
Replies
243
Views
5K
Alan
Alan
The Bear
Newcastle 3-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread
4 5 6
Replies
115
Views
4K
Tony Towner
Tony Towner
Sniffer
  • Locked
Newcastle (A) 15/01 Build Up & Match Thread.
16 17 18
Replies
344
Views
7K
MARKakaJIM
MARKakaJIM
The Bear
Wolves 2-0 Aston Villa: Verdict Thread
7 8 9
Replies
178
Views
5K
pavlosmacwolf
pavlosmacwolf
Back
Top